The Mathematics of Flying

[Jimbo]

You have all heard of the notorious "No-Fly" list compiled by the American government. It is the list of suspected terrorists who are not permitted onto flights coming to, leaving, or flying within the United States. According to CBS News, the list includes 44,000 people not allowed to fly, along with another 75,000 who should be taken aside for "additional security screening", or, in layman's terms, "advanced humiliation techniques".




That's a heck of a lot of "suspected terrorists" and their "cronies"; but before you start to feel safe, snug, and secure knowing that the Department of Homeland Security is doing everything it can to protect you and your loved ones from crazed "Islamofascists", it appears that there is a slight problem with the list. It doesn't contain the names of any real "suspected terrorists" because those names are confidential. The CBS News report tells us:

What Kip Hawley wouldn't tell 60 Minutes is that some of the some of most dangerous terrorists never even end up on the No Fly List, because the intelligence agencies that supply the names don't want them circulated to airport employees in foreign countries for fear that they could end up in the hands of the terrorists.

Cathy Berrick, the Director of Homeland Security and Justice Issues for the General Accounting Office told Kroft that the lists that the airlines get have been sanitized of the most sensitive information.

"They're not given all of the names for security reasons because the government doesn't want to have that information outside of the government," Berrick says.

"But if the point of the system is to keep dangerous people from getting on airplanes, why would you leave some of the potentially most dangerous people off the list?" Kroft asks.

"Yeah, it's a concern. And I think if you talk with the Department of Homeland Security they would agree with that," Berrick says.

Uh, did you get that? Did you really understand what they are telling us openly and without any shame?

Let's run through this again. The no-fly list was created to keep potential Mohammed Atta's off of planes that could be used to create another 9/11, if one accepts the official US government conspiracy theory. However, the names of those suspected terrorists are too sensitive to be put on the lists because publishing them could tip off the terrorists that they are being watched, so they have been removed. Now, a normal person, using their normal intelligence and logical capacities would reason something like this:

If you have a list of suspected terrorists who are not allowed to fly, and then you remove the suspected terrorists from the list because their names are confidential, you would be left with no names. In mathematical terms, the formula for adding the names to the list would look like this:

0 + X = X

where 0 is the number of names before adding the list of suspected terrorists, and X is the number of suspected terrorists. So once the names of suspected terrorists have been added, you have X suspected terrorists on the list.

It isn't high level math.

Therefore we have established that there are X names of suspected terrorists on the list of suspected terrorists who are not allowed to fly. So the spooks in Washington and at the NSA look at the list and one says, "Yup, it's a good list." And the colleague says, "Damn right. I've never seen a better one! They're all there."

"OK. Mark it Way Above Top Secret." And the other guy pulls out his little rubber stamp and goes stamp, stamp, stamp on each of the pages.

"What do we do now?"

"Well, we have to release it to the airlines."

"What level security clearance do they have?"

Then they both get panic stricken looks on their faces when they realize that the employees of the airlines don't have the necessary security clearance.

"It's a damn fine list, but we can't release it to the public."

"Oh my god! You're right! It's classified information!"

So then they embark on the tedious process of undoing all the good work they have just finished. And there's a mathematical formula for that, too.

The next step, removing the names of suspected terrorists from the list of suspected terrorists because they are too sensitive to release, gives the following equation:

X - X = 0

Notice that last number in the equation. According to a top level mathematician I know, whose word on such finer things mathematical I trust 100%, it is a zero which is the empty set. It doesn't contain any elements. That means the list should have no names on it.

Yet there still remain on the American No Fly list 44,000 names of people who are not allowed to fly and another 75,000 who will be subjected to humiliating searches and delays.

So who is it that they are targeting and why, if it isn't the "terrorists"?

The American people, of course.

In fact, the no-fly list was never about protecting the US public. It was always about frightening people, because it is through fear that the population can be controlled and convinced to give up the rights and liberties their ancestors fought and died for.

We saw a text book case of that process in July when the 'bombing scare' in Britain tried to convince us that those damn terrorists could concoct a liquid bomb in the toilet of an airplane from carry-on materials. The fallout repressive measures forced people to remove their shoes, forbid the carrying on of any liquids, including bottled water, the placing of certain items in clear plastic bags, not to mention long lines in the airports.

Not in the name of protection and security, but in the name of the fear factor, of controlling the population, of taking away their rights and liberties, exactly those rights and liberties the Bush gang and the Blair poodle squad claim they are defending through their revocation.

George Orwell would be sick. We're sick.

Notice how the fine public servants who are implementing this policy talk about it openly. Notice how they don't see any problem or inherent contradiction in compiling a list of suspected terrorists that doesn't contain any suspected terrorists. They are aware that it is used for other purposes, to harass people who are vocal in their disdain and criticism of the fascism that is descending upon America, to create the impression among the sheeple that there is a real threat, to justify the loss of rights. They are aware that it is a front, a smokescreen, a ploy to get more power, but as they are part of the ploy, they can tell their stories with a straight face.

Time is running out, folks. It may already be too late. When the powers that be can tell whoppers like this one without even a delayed reaction from the media or the representatives who claim to be representing your interests and freedoms, the clock is running out of time. Sure, it was CBS who disclosed the story. But then what? What happens next?

If you leave it up to CBS or anyone else, you've handed over your responsibility. What does your conscience tell you to do? If you can't hear that voice, maybe you better start trying to find it.

Yeah... It's amazing how people can lack basic knowledge... Airports suck, ever since 9/11 we, the american people have been giving up our basic rights in the name of stopping terrorism.

Aye, but what are your opinions on this? I am frankly getting mad at our current state of government. Bush can fight any war, kill any person, deny anybody their rights, in the name of stopping terrorism. But.. What is terrorism? Can we even give it a propor defoniton? Causing terror in people?... Bush is doing that to thousands of iraqi citizens.. Also, If I was arabic, or came from the middle east, I would be afraid to live in the USA.

[Arxces]

As a non-American, I can only comment on what I observe from the outside. Bear with me...

Ever since 9-11, President Bush has slowly undermined and eroded the liberties that the US has been so proud of. It is sad to see such a rich tradition of freedom slowly being dismantled. As US citizens I can understand your worries over things like the USA PATRIOT Act, the No-fly list, and the wiretaps. I can sympathise with your concerns that fear is being used to control you. Yet I say that you shouldn't be cynical, or pessimistic you shouldn't lose hope, do not despair! There have always been in history, and will always be (although I hope I'm wrong on the second point) tyrants who take away our freedoms. And history shows that tyranny cannot last, that freedom is an overwhelming force, driven by the collective powerful will of the people. As Bush's term nears it's end there is emerging hope that the process of healing and restoring your precious liberties can begin. Now is the time, do not hesitate. Chose your next leader with caution!

As for the no-fly list, this is a commonly used tool in more oppressive governments to restrict the travel of political liabilities, or anyone who represents a threat to the regime. Pure and classic textbook method in oppression...

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Arxces

As a non-American, I can only comment on what I observe from the outside. Bear with me...

Ever since 9-11, President Bush has slowly undermined and eroded the liberties that the US has been so proud of. It is sad to see such a rich tradition of freedom slowly being dismantled. As US citizens I can understand your worries over things like the USA PATRIOT Act, the No-fly list, and the wiretaps. I can sympathise with your concerns that fear is being used to control you. Yet I say that you shouldn't be cynical, or pessimistic you shouldn't lose hope, do not despair! There have always been in history, and will always be (although I hope I'm wrong on the second point) tyrants who take away our freedoms. And history shows that tyranny cannot last, that freedom is an overwhelming force, driven by the collective powerful will of the people. As Bush's term nears it's end there is emerging hope that the process of healing and restoring your precious liberties can begin. Now is the time, do not hesitate. Chose your next leader with caution!

As for the no-fly list, this is a commonly used tool in more oppressive governments to restrict the travel of political liabilities, or anyone who represents a threat to the regime. Pure and classic textbook method in oppression...

Very true. But I am only 16, so I cant vote, or do anything to actually stop the stuff we have to deal with. That's why it's so frustrating.

[x42bn6]

And this list is being compiled by the same people you pay your taxes to. Isn't that a shame?*

[Tipsy]

The no-fly list is a terribly ineffective program that has a multitude of problems and should most likely be seriously reformed or removed. Airport security in general has been a complete mess and does nothing more than supply a false sense of security. However, both are completely legal even if they shouldn't be there.

A lot of our problems go back to the root cause of the Department of Homeland Security. A bunch of departments were all merged to show that we were getting serious about homeland security and then that's pretty much all we did. We merged the departments and left fundamental problems in it and have a department that's pretty much the same except in show.

As for the Patriot Act, it is more a war on our constitution than a war on terrorism. For example, this sounds oddly off to me. It has been used to search people's homes and then having the ability to not inform them for an unspecified amount of time, taken information on people who don't support the administration, and taken away some people's right to assemble.

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by x42bn6

And this list is being compiled by the same people you pay your taxes to. Isn't that a shame?*

Does the phrase "pouring salt into the wound" mean anything to you? LOL :P

Whether no-fly list or patriot act, they both serve to instil fear into people. The mere suggestion that there may be terrorists ready to bomb your plane is powerful, and would help in justifying the sacrifice of certain liberties. The Patriot act is a cleverly written one, I am forced to admit. For example:

SEC. 105. DURATION OF FISA SURVEILLANCE OF NON-UNITED STATES PERSONS UNDER SECTION 207 OF THE USA PATRIOT ACT.

(a) Electronic Surveillance- Section 105(e) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1805(e)) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B), by striking `, as defined in section 101(b)(1)(A)' and inserting `who is not a United States person'; and

(2) in subsection (2)(B), by striking `as defined in section 101(b)(1)(A)' and inserting `who is not a United States person'.

(b) Physical Search- Section 304(d) of such Act (50 U.S.C. 1824(d)) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B), by striking `as defined in section 101(b)(1)(A)' and inserting `who is not a United States person'; and

(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `as defined in section 101(b)(1)(A)' and inserting `who is not a United States person'.

(c) Pen Registers, Trap and Trace Devices- Section 402(e) of such Act (50 U.S.C. 1842(e)) is amended--

(1) by striking `(e) An' and inserting `(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), an'; and

(2) by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(2) In the case of an application under subsection (c) where the applicant has certified that the information likely to be obtained is foreign intelligence information not concerning a United States person, an order, or an extension of an order, under this section may be for a period not to exceed one year.'.

Now, can anyone tell me what exactly this garble does? It basically modifies other laws to withdraw and infringe on liberties, bit by invisible bit. No wonder it passed senate with only 1 dissent...

[AZN_FLEA]

bush is using terror to control people.

terrorism: (noun) a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

therefore bush is a terrorist

bush is using these crude methods of comforting the citizens to make it not seem so bad. if the government did nothing to people would most likely be panicking or scared ****less