Lack of Discipline

[Dark Blade]

Ok, the topic here is broken down into three groups.

Do you feel that the lack of discipline of our generation leads to poor interaction with authority figures? Why or why not?

Do you feel that the lack of discipline of our generation leads to poor interaction between one another? Why or why not?

Do you feel that the lack of discipline of our generation leads to poor interaction between anything else not mentioned? Why or why not?

[Laharl]

I feel that most of a person's problems, be it an addiction (eating, drinking, smoking, weed or cigarettes, drugs in general even) interaction with authority figures, or one another is caused entirely by lack of discipline.

[Dark Blade]

What about in relations to one's peers?

[x42bn6]

Lack of discipline usually ends up to poor interaction between everyone except one's peers at adolescence.

I'll elaborate later.*

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by Root

I feel that most of a person's problems, be it an addiction (eating, drinking, smoking, weed or cigarettes, drugs in general even) interaction with authority figures, or one another is caused entirely by lack of discipline.

I'm inclined to disagree with Root. Such social problems are not entirely the fault of lack of self-discipline. Say rather that a lack of self-discipline is a major factor in these social problems. For it is true that social problems would be prevented by high self-discipline, but there are a host of other factors involved. Self-discipline is an internal factor. External factors may include peers, the media, society, the physical environment, and leaders. Let us use an example: someone with weak self-discipline may not become a drug addict when not in contact with an environment where drugs are in circulation (e.g. poor neighbourhoods, peers). However if they were part of that same environment they have a high chance of becomming a drug addict. A highly self-disciplined person may, on the other hand, be able to avoid temptation and not become an addict. But forgive me for my simplification.

With regards to the first question, respect for authority has deteriorated. It has been doing so at an ever increasing rate, since the Vietnam war of the 1960s. This was the first generation where the youth gained a significant voice in the system, and has brought along with it some good things like student activism and political understanding among the youth. However, it was also the first time a younger generation challenged the authority of the older one. This 'tradition' continues until today, and is re-enforced by the media. I am shocked each time I see an American highschool scene on TV. However, many people see it, and regard it as an acceptable thing to challenge authority. Don't get me wrong; I believe in challenging authority, but only when there is a just cause. Authority should be challenged, but also respected; be made to answer, but not insulted; be pressured to represent, but not unreasonably. Indeed, poor discipline is but a factor causing this less than ideal relationship between authority and us.

[Laharl]

You have to realise that there's a difference between respecting authoritee, and agreeing with them. I believe that it's one's duty to question the "people in charge" if you believe them to be wrong, or at fault about something - as members of a free society. That's democracies greatest strength, along with the right to (nonviolent) protest.

However, I'm a strong believer in the power of discipline in getting over challenges, and such. It comes from within, the greatest power a person could ever hope for.

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by Root

You have to realise that there's a difference between respecting authoritee, and agreeing with them. I believe that it's one's duty to question the "people in charge" if you believe them to be wrong, or at fault about something - as members of a free society. That's democracies greatest strength, along with the right to (nonviolent) protest.

However, I'm a strong believer in the power of discipline in getting over challenges, and such. It comes from within, the greatest power a person could ever hope for.

See, that penguin agrees with me. Respect the authority, but question them (politely) if you have just cause. In retrospect, respect for authority was high before this century due to there being severe consequences for disrespect. For example, insulting the King in any way would have resulted in execution in medieval England. The tyrants of old forced people to "respect" them or to face punishment. Whether or not this was real respect is questionable.

I think that ever since democracy was adopted widely there has been a steady decline in respecy for authority. Don't get me wrong, democracy is great, but some people tend to abuse the freedoms given to them by democracy. This is where self-discipline comes in. In my opinion, the freedom to challenge authority should only be used if there is a genuine concern for something. Yet we see many of our generation dispise authority, not respecting them, challenging authority just because they can.

People with self-discipline learn to be patient. They are able to resist temptation to be rebellious. Many social problems (drinking, drugs, crime) are caused by the desire to challenge authority. The self-disciplined, in contrast, act rationally, not chosing to harm themselves, not challenging authority for the sake of it...

[AZN_FLEA]

wow, hey muslim i agree wit you there.

the lack of discipline is further complimented by the media and music. there are so many rappers rapping about the 'hard life' and tension between them and the police. their songs are catchy and as a result, they are popular, gaining the power to influence stupid young minds to join gangs and rebel against the police. sometimes they didnt even have a hard life e.g. Jay-z who went to NYC and grew up rich.

the parents are also too caught up with their work that they simply do not find time to discipline and teach the kids. they have become lazy and who do they blame? the children. ****ing dick heads are ****ing hippocrites. they piss me off like ****.

but this is just the society we live in. people are selfish and so they abuse democratic policy to the fullest for personal gain and convenience. i heard about a girl who went to a mans house for one day, left some blood stains there and pretended she was raped to sue the man and get money.

we are taught that we are allowed to have a voice in society when we are too young to properly understand what it is. we grow up thinking we are our own boss and no one can order us around. this has led us to challence authority over trivial and unnecessary matters. i find this disgusting because i believe we should all take what we are given and live on.

[Tipsy]

I think the authority (as in those with power) should always be questioned, however in a respectful and peaceful manner. Even if you agree with the stance, questioning a position will raise open public debate which is essential for any country to be free. What I emphasize is open debate. If you question an authority by shouting them down while trying to speak you hinder open discussion. I am not suggesting that you shouldn't protest, but if don't push it to where the other side cannot actually respond turning the situation to where only one side can be heard.

For #1, I would have to say it does hurt interaction with authority figures. You can respect a person while despising their position and not even liking the person - that should be understood by our generation. Respect, requiring disipline, is neccesary to interact with authority figures and correct or ammend their ways if you disagree with them.

For #2, I wouldn't say a lack of disicipline hinders interaction, it just changes the way in which you interact.

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

I think the authority (as in those with power) should always be questioned, however in a respectful and peaceful manner. Even if you agree with the stance, questioning a position will raise open public debate which is essential for any country to be free. What I emphasize is open debate. If you question an authority by shouting them down while trying to speak you hinder open discussion. I am not suggesting that you shouldn't protest, but if don't push it to where the other side cannot actually respond turning the situation to where only one side can be heard.

For #1, I would have to say it does hurt interaction with authority figures. You can respect a person while despising their position and not even liking the person - that should be understood by our generation. Respect, requiring disipline, is neccesary to interact with authority figures and correct or ammend their ways if you disagree with them.

For #2, I wouldn't say a lack of disicipline hinders interaction, it just changes the way in which you interact.

I agree with what you say. However, concerning the interraction between our generation and authority, yes the interraction changes, but more importantly it does so in a way that inhibits communication. Forgive me, for not clarifying this sooner, but it is the communication that suffers. For example, when in Congress, one party filibusters the other instead of debating in a valid manner. Similarly, a rebellious son/daughter may interract with their parent by shouting and arguing, and this form of interraction is, arguably, less communicative. The important point is that different forms of interractions lead to different degrees of communication.

As for Flea's comments on the media and society, they are well justified, despite my reservations on his use of generalisations. It is disappointing to see society devolve in such a way.

[AZN_FLEA]

it is too hard to argue without generalising. my generalisation is gross and disgusting maybe, but whatever

discipline will be beneficial to the society as a whole. in schools, less disruptions will result in more work being done.

[TrOiK]

Wow People just need to hit there kids enough said theres nothin wrong with a good ass whupping every once in awhile look how I came out and I never got one.

[x42bn6]

Originally Posted by TrOiK

Wow People just need to hit there kids enough said theres nothin wrong with a good ass whupping every once in awhile look how I came out and I never got one.

I find it ironic that some children can sue their parents for the simplest spanking, and get away with it...

A little discipline on children can't hurt, and should be encouraged. Because it gets harder to spank a child when he/she is in their teenage years.*

[Laharl]

The problem is that spanking is hardly an effective punishment.

I used to get spanked for hitting somebody (Honest!). What did it teach me, though? "It's OK for violence to be used, as a punishment". That hardly is logical, if you're going to punish... Don't use the punishment. It sends the message it's OK for it to be done by authority figures.

[Lizardbreath]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon

The problem is that spanking is hardly an effective punishment.

I used to get spanked for hitting somebody (Honest!). What did it teach me, though? "It's OK for violence to be used, as a punishment". That hardly is logical, if you're going to punish... Don't use the punishment. It sends the message it's OK for it to be done by authority figures.

Your mom obviously didn't hit you hard enough then. If I ever cursed when I was younger I got a good ass whooping, especially if it was towards an authority figure. Also, there are still certain things I think twice about doing even though I know I won't get slapped anymore. Spanking can be effective if it is done properly, it's when it's used all the time that it loses it's value.

[Laharl]

It really doesn't though, and what does harming somebody teach them? It causes repressed anger which tends to force itself out more and more in general behaviour.

[Lizardbreath]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon

It really doesn't though, and what does harming somebody teach them? It causes repressed anger which tends to force itself out more and more in general behaviour.

Yes it does, but it does cause what you are saying if it is used all the time. Every once in a while you just have to lay down the line and give a kid a good spanking.

[Laharl]

It's been proven though that spanking isn't a very effective punishment, no matter how it's been done. Look at me, I was spanked and I was an absolute brat.

[Lizardbreath]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon

It's been proven though that spanking isn't a very effective punishment, no matter how it's been done. Look at me, I was spanked and I was an absolute brat.

My real question to you is how was this proven and who did the proving. Cuz I guarantee you some of the "medical research teams" didn't go out and spank a bunch of kids and see how they reacted. In the end it depends on the personality of the child, the amount of times spanking is used, and if the parents gave swift punishments when the child was bad.

[Arxces]

IMHO spanking should be employed, but only as a last resort. I can't speak with real authority on this since the hardest I was ever hit was a smack on the hand for pulling my little sister's hair. I think the best way is to try talking it out first with the kids. Also, rewarding is (arguably) more effective than punishment. I almost got expelled in secondary school for fighting, but my parents offered me a paid weekend trip with my friends, and it worked! I did not get into trouble for the entire term! For younger kids there's always the usual treats, extra TV time, or reading from a storybook.