Lack of Discipline

[Lizardbreath]

Originally Posted by Arxces

IMHO spanking should be employed, but only as a last resort. I can't speak with real authority on this since the hardest I was ever hit was a smack on the hand for pulling my little sister's hair. I think the best way is to try talking it out first with the kids. Also, rewarding is (arguably) more effective than punishment. I almost got expelled in secondary school for fighting, but my parents offered me a paid weekend trip with my friends, and it worked! I did not get into trouble for the entire term! For younger kids there's always the usual treats, extra TV time, or reading from a storybook.

Your parents are way too leniant.:susp

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by Lt. Commander

Your parents are way too leniant.:susp

Are you kidding?! I got told off very often. They're very strict compared to my friends. Even in my last months before I moved here to London they imposed curefew on times when I could go out. I wasn't allowed to do many things my friends were allowed to do, like skipping school, drinking, go clubbing etc...

There's a difference between being strict and being harsh. My parents were strict, but not harsh. They gave me all these limitations, but they didn't beat me, or shout at me. We were able to talk things out in a civilised way. And above all else, they listened to what I said. Because they knew if they didn't then I would not listen to them. Don't tell me my parents were lenient. They were most definately not. But harsh, that they were not...

[Cobalt Wolf]

Originally Posted by Arxces

I'm inclined to disagree with Root. Such social problems are not entirely the
fault of lack of self-discipline. Say rather that a lack of self-discipline is a
major factor in these social problems. For it is true that social problems
would be prevented by high self-discipline, but there are a host of other
factors involved. Self-discipline is an internal factor. External factors may
include peers, the media, society, the physical environment, and leaders.
Let us use an example: someone with weak self-discipline may not become
a drug addict when not in contact with an environment where drugs are in
circulation (e.g. poor neighbourhoods, peers). However if they were part of
that same environment they have a high chance of becomming a drug addict.
A highly self-disciplined person may, on the other hand, be able to avoid
temptation and not become an addict. But forgive me for my simplification.

With regards to the first question, respect for authority has deteriorated.
It has been doing so at an ever increasing rate, since the Vietnam war of
the 1960s. This was the first generation where the youth gained a significant
voice in the system, and has brought along with it some good things like
student activism and political understanding among the youth. However,
it was also the first time a younger generation challenged the authority of
the older one. This 'tradition' continues until today, and is re-enforced by the
media. I am shocked each time I see an American highschool scene on TV.
However, many people see it, and regard it as an acceptable thing to
challenge authority. Don't get me wrong; I believe in challenging authority,
but only when there is a just cause. Authority should be
challenged, but also respected; be made to answer, but not insulted; be
pressured to represent, but not unreasonably. Indeed, poor discipline is but
a factor causing this less than ideal relationship between authority and us.

I agree with what Arxes is saying. But the reason for the respect for
authority deteriorating is not only because of the effects of war on society,
politics, and individuals but because of the fact that now today police
brutality (just as it was in the 60's) is a common thing in some areas which
in turn causes people to retaliate, sometimes before they've even become
subject to this sort of thing. Like I, myself, have never had this happen but
I openly speak against it because I wouldn't want it to happen to me or
anyone else. Go to CNN.com and open up the vido and search for "Police
brutality on YouTube" for an example. And keep in mind while you are
watching this that not all happenings are recorded or reported.

What this person being held down by a knee to his throat did (running from
the police) was not right but he is now, as you can see, defenseless, and
the reason why he keeps trying to get up (resisting, as the police call it) is
because he is trying to breathe and is panicing. At this point, the authoritive
figures are in the wrong. What they are doing is taking the opportunity to
take their aggressions out on this poor defenseless man who is absolutely
no threat towards them. He was never a threat to them in the first place,
even as he was running from them.

Originally Posted by AZN_FLEA

the lack of discipline is further complimented by the media and music. there
are so many rappers rapping about the 'hard life' and tension between them
and the police. their songs are catchy and as a result, they are popular,
gaining the power to influence stupid young minds to join gangs and rebel
against the police. sometimes they didnt even have a hard life e.g. Jay-z
who went to NYC and grew up rich.

the parents are also too caught up with their work that they simply do not
find time to discipline and teach the kids. they have become lazy and who
do they blame? the children.

we are taught that we are allowed to have a voice in society when we are
too young to properly understand what it is. we grow up thinking we are our
own boss and no one can order us around. this has led us to challence
authority over trivial and unnecessary matters. i find this disgusting
because i believe we should all take what we are given and live on.

I also agree with what AZN_FLEA says as far as the music and media's
influence. But I don't, however, agree with what you're saying about the
parents. I used to think that way until I became a mother. Now every day
when I get home from work I am so tired that all I want to do is sit or even
go to sleep but I know I have to feed my daughter and cook dinner and
then clean before I can think about myself.

Most cases, no cleaning gets done during the week and I sure don't want
to do it when I finally get a day off. But yay me, now I've quit my job to
stay at home with my daughter and to get the house cleaned while I do my
schooling so I can get a better job. It's really scary though. I can't help but
worry about money but at the same time, I'm so glad I quit this job! It's
been like a 4 year bad relationship. At first it was great but after 6 months
of working there things started going downhill and I've hated the place ever
since but needed the money and was scared to quit.

These days the workplace scares the parents into putting their work before
their family by threatening their jobs if they make the slightest slip-up like
being 5 minutes late or calling in because your child is sick or leaving early
to go pick your sick child up from school. You really have no idea.

Don't ever apply to work at Wal-Mart. They are the most family
-unfriendly and employee-unfriendly place to work that there is.

Originally Posted by Arxces

IMHO spanking should be employed, but only as a last resort. I can't speak
with real authority on this since the hardest I was ever hit was a smack on
the hand for pulling my little sister's hair. I think the best way is to try talking
it out first with the kids. Also, rewarding is (arguably) more effective than
punishment. I almost got expelled in secondary school for fighting, but my
parents offered me a paid weekend trip with my friends, and it worked! I did
not get into trouble for the entire term! For younger kids there's always the
usual treats, extra TV time, or reading from a storybook.

Again I agree with Arxces. The bible says "Spare the rod and spoil the child."
I don't agree just because the bible says that but because it's true. It does
spoil the child and I've witnessed it with a lot of children not being spanked
by their parents when misbehaving.

I also agree with giving rewards when they are being good so that they are
motivated to do good next time by a reward so they will want to do good
not because they are too scared to do bad. Not giving them anything to
look forward to will sometimes make them rebel also.

[Arxces]

Originally Posted by Cobalt Wolf

I agree with what Arxes is saying. But the reason for the respect for
authority deteriorating is not only because of the effects of war on society,
politics, and individuals but because of the fact that now today police
brutality (just as it was in the 60's) is a common thing in some areas which
in turn causes people to retaliate, sometimes before they've even become
subject to this sort of thing. Like I, myself, have never had this happen but
I openly speak against it because I wouldn't want it to happen to me or
anyone else. Go to CNN.com and open up the vido and search for "Police
brutality on YouTube" for an example. And keep in mind while you are
watching this that not all happenings are recorded or reported.

What this person being held down by a knee to his throat did (running from
the police) was not right but he is now, as you can see, defenseless, and
the reason why he keeps trying to get up (resisting, as the police call it) is
because he is trying to breathe and is panicing. At this point, the authoritive
figures are in the wrong. What they are doing is taking the opportunity to
take their aggressions out on this poor defenseless man who is absolutely
no threat towards them. He was never a threat to them in the first place,
even as he was running from them.

The police is the most visible symbol of authority in most governmental systems, as enforcers of the law, and supposedly keepers of the peace. The idea that you put forward, of rebellion for the sake of retalliation and as a reaction for persecution is an interesting one. However, the police cannot be blamed fully. As civil servants, police officers have a job to safeguard the public. Part of that job is to investigate suspicious people and places. Sometimes they are required to pursue, especially people who have something to hide. Personally, I don't mind being searched while in a public place, if it contributes to public safety. I don't, however, think the same should apply to my home...

[AZN_FLEA]

Originally Posted by Cobalt Wolf

...
I also agree with what AZN_FLEA says as far as the music and media's
influence. But I don't, however, agree with what you're saying about the
parents. I used to think that way until I became a mother. Now every day
when I get home from work I am so tired that all I want to do is sit or even
go to sleep but I know I have to feed my daughter and cook dinner and
then clean before I can think about myself.

Most cases, no cleaning gets done during the week and I sure don't want
to do it when I finally get a day off. But yay me, now I've quit my job to
stay at home with my daughter and to get the house cleaned while I do my
schooling so I can get a better job. It's really scary though. I can't help but
worry about money but at the same time, I'm so glad I quit this job! It's
been like a 4 year bad relationship. At first it was great but after 6 months
of working there things started going downhill and I've hated the place ever
since but needed the money and was scared to quit.

These days the workplace scares the parents into putting their work before
their family by threatening their jobs if they make the slightest slip-up like
being 5 minutes late or calling in because your child is sick or leaving early
to go pick your sick child up from school. You really have no idea.

Don't ever apply to work at Wal-Mart. They are the most family
-unfriendly and employee-unfriendly place to work that there is.
...

ok ty for some more wisdom and info.

maybe, its not the parents fault but the economies fault, or rather, the companies fault. downsizing for more profit is ruining the economy. for those who dont know what downsizing is, its making the company smaller in terms of workers to maximise profits. it makes the workers much more stressed and increases unemployment.

sigh, society is ruining itself. i worry about my future and soemtiems you guys' futures as well.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by AZN_FLEA

ok ty for some more wisdom and info.

maybe, its not the parents fault but the economies fault, or rather, the companies fault. downsizing for more profit is ruining the economy. for those who dont know what downsizing is, its making the company smaller in terms of workers to maximise profits. it makes the workers much more stressed and increases unemployment.

sigh, society is ruining itself. i worry about my future and soemtiems you guys' futures as well.

Downsizing for profit is ruining the economy? Downsizing is a result of the competition created by capitalism and makes the market more efficient. The market is generally run by greed and this does not hurt the economy - it helps it. If someone is fired from a job it is generally their fault for not making themselves a more favorable candidate. Harsh? Yes, however a small price to pay with government intervention in the economy and programs such as welfare for the efficiency and productivity of our free market.