US Spending in War on Terror

[Гражданин СССР]

I just read a very interesting article. It sighted an independant US senate group that investigated how much money was spent for the war in Iraq so far. The number is a staggering 320 billion US dollars and they predict that it will take about 400 billion USD to stop the war right now and pull US soldiers out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Now that would put the final cost at 720 billion USD. The total accumulation of US wealth comes to around 14 trillion USD. That means that war on terror will cost atleast 1/14th of the total US wealth, actually the war will not end today or tomorrow or in a year so it will most definitely cost more then the 1/14th. Question, was it worth it?

P.S.: You guys should revolt. The president only 32% of the population likes threw 1/14th of your economy away and got nothing to show for it. El Presidente must go down!!!

[TrongaMonga]

400 USD? What, millions, billions, trillions?

--Edit--

Nevermind, read the sum Billions it is.

[Гражданин СССР]

Yeap, I edited it. So no other thoughts? Wanna pass our american brothers an AK-47 and some ammunition?

[TrongaMonga]

Yeah, here are my thoughts:

www.costofwar.com

The War In Iraq Costs
$277,781,581,069

Instead, we could have paid for
36,792,268
children to attend a year of Head Start.

Instead, we could have insured
166,336,325
children for one year.

Instead, we could have hired
4,813,990
additional public school teachers for one year.

Instead, we could have provided
13,466,246
students four-year scholarships at public universities.

Instead, we could have built
2,501,163
additional housing units.

Instead, we could have fully funded global anti-hunger efforts for
11
years.

nstead, we could have fully funded world-wide AIDS programs for
27
years.

nstead, we could have ensured that every child in the world was given basic immunizations for
92
years.

Need more opinions? Almost a century of basic immunizations wasted.

[Tipsy]

To add onto Kuzmich's post, there is more than just billions of dollars being spent, but a lot of money is being wasted in every sense of the word as well. The latest estimate I have heard is roughly a billion dollars having been mismanaged and lost completely. That's money that comes straight out of our tax dollars (well, not you two, Tronga and Kuzmich). Lots of it was lost by lack of paperwork and supervision. Many things not much more than oral contracts have caused a great deal of that money to go to waste.

The organizations in Iraq are losing vehicles. I mean literally misplacing them because of a lack of paperwork. Soldiers have been charged with stealing money, the biggest case I've read about being about 2.5 million USD. Then there are basic projects such as water purification projects, hospitals, schools, electrical projects, and others that are simply throwing money at the projects and not holding any accountability for a lot of projects not being finished. Some of its' due to having to up security costs and other given problems in Iraq, but a noticeable portion of the money has simply vanished.

And its' not only our money, but Iraqi money being lost too. I read an article how 10 billion USD worth of Iraqi oil money had 'disappeared' and no one could account for it.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of reconstruction is occurring, a lot of good is happening, but a lot of money and resources is being mismanaged by multiple organizations dealing with reconstruction in Iraq.


As for Tronga's post, do you really think any of those things would have happened if we hadn't gone to war in Iraq? I mean realistically, the money wouldn't have been spent because it would most likely be filling in our deficit. To add one last thing to your list, "Instead we could have filled in 1/30 (about 3.3%) our of national debt." Mine doesn't have the same emotion appeal, but it does show where the money most likely would have gone.

[TrongaMonga]

That's not the point. Even if it wasn't used in those things, it could have been. And it's a lot of a better use of money to feed people for eleven years than for a stupid war with stupid losses.

[Гражданин СССР]

Well one thing that money could better be used for is education, instead of cutting the budget to feed the war your government would be able to give more money to it and realitstically speaking that could happen if there was no war in Iraq.

[AZN_FLEA]

reminds me of the soviet union a little, spent more money than they could sustain and eventually collapsed.

to be serious, USA is rich enough, they own most of the world economy. losing that much wont make too much difference. it may seem like a lot but i would say the effects are minimal

[Master.America]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

The total accumulation of US wealth comes to around 14 trillion USD. That means that war on terror will cost atleast 1/14th of the total US wealth, actually the war will not end today or tomorrow or in a year so it will most definitely cost more then the 1/14th. Question, was it worth it?

It's closer to 1/20th than 1/14. Still, though, a fraction of hundreds of billions of dollars is still a LOT of money.

Flea: The US "rich?" Have you seen the debt clock lately?

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

That's not the point. Even if it wasn't used in those things, it could have been. And it's a lot of a better use of money to feed people for eleven years than for a stupid war with stupid losses.

And you are missing my point too. It's not that it couldn't be spent on something better, but in comparison to the GDP and/or debt of the United States, it isn't incredibly significant.

For the example, I'll use nice round numbers. The United States has spent 320 billion over the last three years on Iraq. The GDP for the United States in one year is 12.41 trillion dollars, or 36 trillion dollars (rounded) over three years. So over the last three years, the United States has spent 0.8% of our GDP on Iraq. I am just pointing out that if a major reform for government contracts, management, etc to make the government more efficient at home could most likely easily save the government 106 billion dollars a year (that's the 320 billion divided by 3).

Edit: I noticed something after I posted this. The money I rounded off can by itself pay off the entire Iraq War, the figure Kuzmich gave to withdrawal, and another 500 billion for w/e.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be used on a lot of better things, but when put in perspective, the money spent on Iraq isn't anywhere close to as significant as the media portrays it as. If the media actually put aside its' political agenda, conservative or liberal, and actually went after sources of wasted resources, there are tons of examples that have been around for a longer than the Iraq War and most older than the first Gulf War as well.

[TrongaMonga]

Yeah, we're more or less into the same thing. America's bloody rich, and they could help lots of people, but their economy is so hungry it must be fed with enourmous ammounts of resources.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

P.S.: You guys should revolt. The president only 32% of the population likes threw 1/14th of your economy away and got nothing to show for it. El Presidente must go down!!!

Unlike your country we don't just have rag-tag backwater revolts every 6 months. You should know, like your media, is controlled by a group of people and their ideas. The media sucks, and always has.
I'm sorry our country doesn't support arms shady countries.

As for spending, we have the money and if its 1/14th who the **** cares? I don't. Not anymore, illegals are getting my money and they don't pay taxes. A lot of people don't pay taxes and get MY money that I give to the government.

Again, who cares? American's don't care. They have their weed, smokes, beer and football games. They could care less. Pretty much like every other country.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Master.America

It's closer to 1/20th than 1/14. Still, though, a fraction of hundreds of billions of dollars is still a LOT of money.

Flea: The US "rich?" Have you seen the debt clock lately?

Nah...1/14th is just about right, I guess different sources say differently.

Originally Posted by Pause

Unlike your country we don't just have rag-tag backwater revolts every 6 months. You should know, like your media, is controlled by a group of people and their ideas. The media sucks, and always has.
I'm sorry our country doesn't support arms shady countries.

As for spending, we have the money and if its 1/14th who the **** cares? I don't. Not anymore, illegals are getting my money and they don't pay taxes. A lot of people don't pay taxes and get MY money that I give to the government.

Again, who cares? American's don't care. They have their weed, smokes, beer and football games. They could care less. Pretty much like every other country.

Now people like you are the ones that are leading US on the path to self-destruction. First you make broad uneducated statements concerning other countries. No sir/mam (which ever one you are), we don't have revolutions in my country every 6 months, we had only one big one and that was in 1917. As for my media, I am not even gonna start, there is no point in explaining even simple things to your kind.

Your money? Wow, I guess you think you are feeding the nation all by yourself, atleast thats what you make it sound like. Okay moving on.

Obviously Americans do give a damn that their education budget is being cut, that the helthcare system is about to go kaput, that their president THREW AWAY 1/14 of their money fighting a war in a nation that never posed any threat to US, meanwhile Osama runs free and giggles.

Basically, you don't care, you're an idiot, most americans are slowly waking up from that pipedream that made them pick the monkey guy at the last presidential elections. Look at his bloody aprooval rating.

[TrongaMonga]

Originally Posted by Pause

You should know, like your media, is controlled by a group of people and their ideas. The media sucks, and always has.

You said that like if your media was actually something superb.

Your's the worst media in the world in terms of content, really... At least in the news, CNN's the best american channel and it's just dumb...

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Pause

Unlike your country we don't just have rag-tag backwater revolts every 6 months. You should know, like your media, is controlled by a group of people and their ideas. The media sucks, and always has.
I'm sorry our country doesn't support arms shady countries.

As for spending, we have the money and if its 1/14th who the **** cares? I don't. Not anymore, illegals are getting my money and they don't pay taxes. A lot of people don't pay taxes and get MY money that I give to the government.

Again, who cares? American's don't care. They have their weed, smokes, beer and football games. They could care less. Pretty much like every other country.

While I agree with you on the illegals thing, that has to be one of the most rediculous things ever posted. For once, I actually agree with Kuz. You are the kind of person that gives America such a bad reputation throughout the world. I care if we spend 320 Billion on a war that we don't need to fight. Your generalizations is totally false. I don't smoke or drink, and while I do watch football, it certainly isn't the most important thing in my life.

Backwater revolutions every 6 months? Are you serious?

[Snagg]

1/20th of money is well spent to protect our children.

Saddam was funding terrorists.

Tons of oil in Iraq.

Kill anything that stands in the way of our children's happiness.

Bush's decision to go to war will make him great.

[Tipsy]

Would either of you two mind citing your source because I have been trying to find one and haven't been very successful.

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

Obviously Americans do give a damn that their education budget is being cut, that the helthcare system is about to go kaput, that their president THREW AWAY 1/14 of their money fighting a war in a nation that never posed any threat to US, meanwhile Osama runs free and giggles.

First off, where exactly did you hear our healthcare system is about to go kaput? I mean, there is medicaid and similar programs that provide specialized care to the elderly and such, but the American healthcare system is dominantly private business. I haven't heard of much in regards to either the public of private healthcare system of America failings in either case.

As for the American education, the lack of money is the least of their problems. I seem to be blaming everything on the same thing, but it is true for reconstruction in Iraq, government agencies in the US, and the school system - poor management. It is a problem with state and local government because there really is very little in federal government regulation in education standards. Some public schools in the United States are superb, others teach terribly. Poor curriculums are being picked and some independent studies have shown some public schools waste as much as half the school day with non-educational activities on a daily basis. I could go on, but it would terribly lead the topic astray. I just want you to know that throwing money at it has not, is not, and will not fix American public education.

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

Your's the worst media in the world in terms of content, really... At least in the news, CNN's the best american channel and it's just dumb...

What? The news is supposed to show content? That's a revolutionary concept for the American media.

Originally Posted by Snagg

Saddam was funding terrorists.

Not to mention saddam was a terrorist. Notice the war is called the "war on terror" rather than "the war on al-queda."

[Knox]

I bet we will get some of that money back after we finish stealing all the oil.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Tipsy

Would either of you two mind citing your source because I have been trying to find one and haven't been very successful.

Sorry, I can't, I did read it somethere though.

First off, where exactly did you hear our healthcare system is about to go kaput? I mean, there is medicaid and similar programs that provide specialized care to the elderly and such, but the American healthcare system is dominantly private business. I haven't heard of much in regards to either the public of private healthcare system of America failings in either case.

By healthcare I meant medicare and that seems to be a hot button issue. I heard things like a single American having to fund 3-4 elderly people if a solution is not found.

As for the American education, the lack of money is the least of their problems. I seem to be blaming everything on the same thing, but it is true for reconstruction in Iraq, government agencies in the US, and the school system - poor management. It is a problem with state and local government because there really is very little in federal government regulation in education standards. Some public schools in the United States are superb, others teach terribly. Poor curriculums are being picked and some independent studies have shown some public schools waste as much as half the school day with non-educational activities on a daily basis. I could go on, but it would terribly lead the topic astray. I just want you to know that throwing money at it has not, is not, and will not fix American public education.

Well, your Supreme Court doesn't think that everyone is entittled to the right of equal education, if you wanna fix the system you might want to change their view on that one first, then throw money at it.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

While I agree with you on the illegals thing, that has to be one of the most rediculous things ever posted. For once, I actually agree with Kuz. You are the kind of person that gives America such a bad reputation throughout the world.

No, its the people who can't make up their mind and follow the retard who also can't make up his mind like sheep. A lot of kids/college students believe they think so unique but really, really, they only spit out the same **** they are being taught. Its people like John Kerry, and now President Bush who can't make up their fricking minds.

I care if we spend 320 Billion...

Tell me then? Why do you care? Seriously, why do you care?

You want more money to be spent on our childern? Time to open you eyes and learn that the money is only going towards teachers, which are in fact on the government payroll. Its proven that schools with lower budgets still produce extremely smart kids. As I'm seeing it now, ACT and SAT scores are **** low compared to what they could be. The public schools aren't cutting the jiff, and giving more and more money to them (the teachers) isn't helping.
The one who takes the job for the less amount of money really believes in his or her work. Not the teachers who form a union to strike every time they want a new car or hot-tube. Especially when teachers get as many free days off and summers. How many fulltime workers do you know that get that PLUS the benefits that teachers get?

...on a war that we don't need to fight.

Oh, you are the kind that believes in nothing...
You talk ****, and want bad people to stop doing bad things but when its time to do something about it you run away like a dog with your tail between your legs.

Your generalizations is totally false. I don't smoke or drink, and while I do watch football, it certainly isn't the most important thing in my life.

Again you missed the point. People generally don't care. I've you read some of the polls on the onion.com ? People have whatever in their life and they just don't care. Here it is football. Favre is their god. No one here cares what happens in the world except for what is printed in the sport section of the paper. People here don't have to worry about anything except when they go to play tennis next. No bombs, no crime, no nothing. The BIGGEST thing here was a couple months ago when some guy broke into cars and took a few CD's.
Now go over seas. The middle east, talk about peace there. Get the death penality for converting to a Christian. Israel will continue to be bombed for a long time, and terrorists aren't going to stop because we ask them nicely.
Yes, America and Europe might be civilized, but the rest of the world isn't.

Backwater revolutions every 6 months? Are you serious?

America has had 1 civil war in its entire history. That's a pretty low count compared to other countries.

PRESIDENT Bush wants to cut spending.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12630637/
But its not happening. I've said it before and I dare to say it again. The president (any president) really doesn't have that much power as some would assume. There is always the check-and-balance system in our government.
See, the Senate has quite the control on this issue. Do you think another way? Do you believe that there is a better way of doing things? Why don't you write YOUR represenitives?? Anyhere does? ANYONE? Or do you just bitch about it? So let's cowboy-the-****-up until we can put our money where our mouths are.