US Spending in War on Terror

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

Sorry, I can't, I did read it somethere though.

It's no problem, I wasn't calling out your numbers, I am just looking for a source for myself to use.

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

By healthcare I meant medicare and that seems to be a hot button issue. I heard things like a single American having to fund 3-4 elderly people if a solution is not found.

I think you're talking about social security.

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

Well, your Supreme Court doesn't think that everyone is entittled to the right of equal education, if you wanna fix the system you might want to change their view on that one first, then throw money at it.

That's part of the curriculum thing. I don't have the actual law, but I think it would be the same opportunity (as in, and I am generalizing, everyone has the right to go to a public school). Some states have/are tested/ing schools that teach occupations (for example, if you want to be an electrician, there are courses that specifically teach you what you need to know for that) and other things. I read about a school that was based almost completely in math and science as well. What needs to be fixed is that federal standards need to be set by someone with a brain, something most politicians are lacking these days.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Pause

You want more money to be spent on our childern? Time to open you eyes and learn that the money is only going towards teachers, which are in fact on the government payroll. Its proven that schools with lower budgets still produce extremely smart kids. As I'm seeing it now, ACT and SAT scores are shit low compared to what they could be. The public schools aren't cutting the jiff, and giving more and more money to them (the teachers) isn't helping.

But say giving more money to schools to buy better equipment and to be able to afford a more rigorous curriculum would help.

The one who takes the job for the less amount of money really believes in his or her work. Not the teachers who form a union to strike every time they want a new car or hot-tube. Especially when teachers get as many free days off and summers. How many fulltime workers do you know that get that PLUS the benefits that teachers get?

Oh yes, life of the teacher, thats a good life. I am being sarcastic by the way.

Oh, you are the kind that believes in nothing...
You talk shit, and want bad people to stop doing bad things but when its time to do something about it you run away like a dog with your tail between your legs.

Atleast he knows what he is talking about, unlike you who considers ignorance an ultimate bliss. Plus if he is running away what are you doing?

Again you missed the point. People generally don't care. I've you read some of the polls on the onion.com ? People have whatever in their life and they just don't care. Here it is football. Favre is their god. No one here cares what happens in the world except for what is printed in the sport section of the paper. People here don't have to worry about anything except when they go to play tennis next. No bombs, no crime, no nothing. The BIGGEST thing here was a couple months ago when some guy broke into cars and took a few CD's.

Well, every country has a poorly educated, non-caring class of people, but thankfully US also has some bright individuals.

Now go over seas. The middle east, talk about peace there. Get the death penality for converting to a Christian. Israel will continue to be bombed for a long time, and terrorists aren't going to stop because we ask them nicely.
Yes, America and Europe might be civilized, but the rest of the world isn't.

Please sir, get your head out of your butthole, someone like you has no place to speak about who is civilized and who isn't. There are different standards, there are different points of view, you may not respect that but nobody gives a damn there are people who matter in this world who do respect other cultures.

America has had 1 civil war in its entire history. That's a pretty low count compared to other countries.

It also existed for only 300 years, unlike other countries, plus its geographically isolated.

PRESIDENT Bush wants to cut spending.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12630637/
But its not happening. I've said it before and I dare to say it again. The president (any president) really doesn't have that much power as some would assume. There is always the check-and-balance system in our government.
See, the Senate has quite the control on this issue. Do you think another way? Do you believe that there is a better way of doing things? Why don't you write YOUR represenitives?? Anyhere does? ANYONE? Or do you just bitch about it? So let's cowboy-the-****-up until we can put our money where our mouths are.

[/quote]

In 2000 the Supreme Court was okay with Bush cheating on the elections, in 2003 the Congress was okay with starting a war in Iraq. Simply said, Bush played the other two branches anyway he wanted.

[TrongaMonga]

America has had 1 civil war in its entire history. That's a pretty low count compared to other countries.

Yeah, like every country in the world had to have a civil war .

Civil wars are not that common. But, anyway, it wasn't even a hundred years (or about) of your foundation and you were already fighting each other. Oh, by the way, that war proved that the people has no power whatsoever if the governement is supported by the army.

[Dark Blade]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

Oh, by the way, that war proved that the people has no power whatsoever if the governement is supported by the army.

How do you figure?




Plus, I blame Russia for America's bad education right now. Because, during the Cold War, America stressed Math and Science over all other subjects, which eventually caused the decline of it.

[Kuro Neko]

Instead, we could have fully funded global anti-hunger efforts for
11
years.

And what's sad is that the war is more important than people starving to death, grats.

[Master.America]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

Nah...1/14th is just about right, I guess different sources say differently.

What are you talking about? I'm using your numbers... are you telling me that 14 trillion divided by 720 billion is approximately 1/14?

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Seraph

How do you figure?




Plus, I blame Russia for America's bad education right now. Because, during the Cold War, America stressed Math and Science over all other subjects, which eventually caused the decline of it.

You stressed Science and Math? According to international testing you suck at both.

Originally Posted by Master.America

What are you talking about? I'm using your numbers... are you telling me that 14 trillion divided by 720 billion is approximately 1/14?

I rounded 720 billion off to a trillion.

[TrongaMonga]

Almost all good american scientists are foreign, while almost all Russian scientists are Russian (most, some were Ukranian or from the rest of the Soviet Union).

[Dark Blade]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

You stressed Science and Math? According to international testing you suck at both.

That's because they lack the comprehension they would have gained if they hadn't overly-stressed it. Plus, I didn't need you to reaffirm my knowledge that we suck at both, as can be seen with my last few words after the comma in my post, but I guess you didn't see them.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Pause

Unlike your country we don't just have rag-tag backwater revolts every 6 months. You should know, like your media, is controlled by a group of people and their ideas. The media sucks, and always has.
I'm sorry our country doesn't support arms shady countries.

As for spending, we have the money and if its 1/14th who the **** cares? I don't. Not anymore, illegals are getting my money and they don't pay taxes. A lot of people don't pay taxes and get MY money that I give to the government.

Again, who cares? American's don't care. They have their weed, smokes, beer and football games. They could care less. Pretty much like every other country.

I'm a 16 year old kid, and I care. The war is pointless, the whole war concept is stupid. We wasted so much money on the war in iraq(as said in this thread)... Look at how much money the U.S and Russia spent on the nuclear arms race... War is pointless.. Oh, and taxes dont go to "illigal aliens" pause... Think about it.

[Tipsy]

Let me be clear, American public schools (K-12) are behind for a bunch of reasons, but not the ones everyone keeps talking about. Money is not really the problem, it is how they are being run.

The first important thing is that they are basically being run by politicians and people with political agendas rather than educators and people who know what should be done.

The second important thing is that there is not as much structure as in other countries. We have this mentality that everyone should learn at their own rate. The problem with this philosophy, though it makes the kids not feel stupid and hurt their self-esteem, they don't learn much. If the kid is stupid, I don't see why he shouldn't know it. I personally choose a good education system over some people feeling hurt emotionally because they don't put in the effort or can't put in the effort to learn.

The next important thing is what I have been talking about and has been misunderstood, the curriculum. It is not that we need money to afford a new one or something alone those lines, but that they are not being taught properly at all. For example, we have programs that are supposed to teach logical thinking and critical analysis. Instead the teachers have the kids memorize things for the standardized tests to make it look like they were taught that properly.

Though the last two points just tie into the first. The problem is that politicians come up with our education programs and they, for the most part, have absolutely no idea how education should work. All the while, the actual teachers who have good ideas are much of the time ignored. Our politicians use our education system to get votes.

Money is not anywhere close to the forefront in the problems with the American public education system, so the war in Iraq has had little effect on it. The biggest effect I could think of would probably be a teacher going to serve in Iraq, but that’s a guess without any actual source.

[Гражданин СССР]

The cirriculum is defenetly a problem that can be solved with money. Some schools can afford to have equipment, certified teachers, etc. for more different courses and some can't. From what I read schools are being funded by the county gov't and the money used comes from the property tax. If a country has less money from the property taxes then its schools will have less money, thus their effectiveness will suffer in very obvious ways.

[AZN_FLEA]

i think bushes move into iraq was strategic. oil in iraq= money or resource.

US needs oil, US gets oil. banking the oil in the strategic reserve allows US to attack an arabian nation and get their oil when the arabs use oil as an economic weapon.

also, when oil is so rare that the prices are sky high(crappy movie), oil sales can benefit the US in alot of ways.

i think Bush is doing great. and the media and the people...how much do the public know about politics? WHAT THE **** DO THEY KNOW ABOUT POLITICS??? if they ran the country the debt would start increasing exponentially.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Pause

No, its the people who can't make up their mind and follow the retard who also can't make up his mind like sheep. A lot of kids/college students believe they think so unique but really, really, they only spit out the same shit they are being taught. Its people like John Kerry, and now President Bush who can't make up their fricking minds.

What does that even mean? Are you saying other countrys of the world hate the US because it's full of people who don't know what they are thinking? That's wrong? I'm pretty sure the rest of the world thinks of the US as a bunch of self centered rednecks.

Originally Posted by Pause

Tell me then? Why do you care? Seriously, why do you care?

You want more money to be spent on our childern? Time to open you eyes and learn that the money is only going towards teachers, which are in fact on the government payroll. Its proven that schools with lower budgets still produce extremely smart kids. As I'm seeing it now, ACT and SAT scores are shit low compared to what they could be. The public schools aren't cutting the jiff, and giving more and more money to them (the teachers) isn't helping.
The one who takes the job for the less amount of money really believes in his or her work. Not the teachers who form a union to strike every time they want a new car or hot-tube. Especially when teachers get as many free days off and summers. How many fulltime workers do you know that get that PLUS the benefits that teachers get?

See Tronga's post on things that 320 Billion could have been used for. That money could have been used for alot of things that would have benifited America domesticly, but instead it was sent to Iraq.

Originally Posted by Pause

Oh, you are the kind that believes in nothing...
You talk shit, and want bad people to stop doing bad things but when its time to do something about it you run away like a dog with your tail between your legs.

I'm 16. I can't vote. Run away like a dog with my tail between my legs? That's quite a stretch there. What do you want me to do? Go kill the president? You seem to rant about teachers getting to much money, what have you done about it? I talk shit? I'm just saying what I think.

Originally Posted by Pause

PRESIDENT Bush wants to cut spending.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12630637/
But its not happening. I've said it before and I dare to say it again. The president (any president) really doesn't have that much power as some would assume. There is always the check-and-balance system in our government.
See, the Senate has quite the control on this issue. Do you think another way? Do you believe that there is a better way of doing things? Why don't you write YOUR represenitives?? Anyhere does? ANYONE? Or do you just bitch about it? So let's cowboy-the-****-up until we can put our money where our mouths are.

Ever hear of the War Powers Act? It was put into place after Vietnam so that a president couldn't send troops overseas for more than 90 days without a declaration of war by congress. I see no such declaration, yet our troops are still there, much past the 90 day limit. Balance of powers?

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by AZN_FLEA

i think bushes move into iraq was strategic. oil in iraq= money or resource.

US needs oil, US gets oil. banking the oil in the strategic reserve allows US to attack an arabian nation and get their oil when the arabs use oil as an economic weapon.

also, when oil is so rare that the prices are sky high(crappy movie), oil sales can benefit the US in alot of ways.

i think Bush is doing great. and the media and the people...how much do the public know about politics? WHAT THE **** DO THEY KNOW ABOUT POLITICS??? if they ran the country the debt would start increasing exponentially.

Eh...actually they probably know more about politics then the monkey man thats in the white house right now. The debt has already increased exponentially all thanks to Mr. Dubai and his eh... "wisdom".

Iraq was selling oil before you invaded it, now its not and it won't for a long time. And since the prices on gas in US are going up you must see that something was done wrong. Getting oil was never a problem, you can always find suppliers if you look in the right places. Invading Iraq was a mistake, nobody can deny that now.

[TrongaMonga]

That would depend on the perspective.

The big american weapon companies did profit, and so did the civil constructers.

And the oil companies as well, despite not as much as they had planned.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

The cirriculum is defenetly a problem that can be solved with money. Some schools can afford to have equipment, certified teachers, etc. for more different courses and some can't. From what I read schools are being funded by the county gov't and the money used comes from the property tax. If a country has less money from the property taxes then its schools will have less money, thus their effectiveness will suffer in very obvious ways.

Here's the thing, the richest counties in the United States still need much improvement in curriculum and management. Many schools have newly renovated facilities, computers all bought within the last few years, and so forth. They have the money, they have the resources, they don't have the curriculum. They can afford a curriculum and have no problem with that. They just don't have a curriculum that works with students because mostly politicians are running the school system. And I can speak for the richest counties because most of the counties near where I live are among them, not to mention I went to one.

Originally Posted by Jiggy

See Tronga's post on things that 320 Billion could have been used for. That money could have been used for alot of things that would have benifited America domesticly, but instead it was sent to Iraq.

And see my post where I stated that if we wanted to do the things Tronga listed we could very easily because it isn't really that much when put into perspective:

"For the example, I'll use nice round numbers. The United States has spent 320 billion over the last three years on Iraq. The GDP for the United States in one year is 12.41 trillion dollars, or 36 trillion dollars (rounded) over three years. So over the last three years, the United States has spent 0.8% of our GDP on Iraq. I am just pointing out that if a major reform for government contracts, management, etc to make the government more efficient at home could most likely easily save the government 106 billion dollars a year (that's the 320 billion divided by 3)."

It can be used on better things, but arguing that 0.8% of our GDP is being used on Iraq is hardly a decisive point.

[betaalpha5]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

The cirriculum is defenetly a problem that can be solved with money. Some schools can afford to have equipment, certified teachers, etc. for more different courses and some can't. From what I read schools are being funded by the county gov't and the money used comes from the property tax. If a country has less money from the property taxes then its schools will have less money, thus their effectiveness will suffer in very obvious ways.

this is around my area and i've seen it's affects.
although funding for a school is determine on property value in the area, it does not mean it goes to the school in the neighborhood. lets say school A is a great school, lots of people passing classes, and those who graduate goes to college and becomes very successul. the government will give that school a lot of money inorder for the school to buy equipment, books, gym items etc. if they school continues to do well, then they get more money.

school B is doing very poorly, many students are failing some do not even bother coming to class, and the books are outdated. students cannot get a good education because the material is old and the school does not have a lot of cash. now many know that san francisco is a very expensive city where housing is quite pricy. so school B should get a lot of money because of the property value in the area, but they don't because the government gives most of the money to school A. school B ends up getting less funding which means school B cannot buy what they need and cannot teach properly, then of course more students fail. then this cycle continues forever and until the neighborhood are nothing but drug dealers.
so even if an area has high property tax it still goes to the better schools. in america aren't we taught at a young age that if you don't pass this test then you'll never make it in life? is somebody doesn't score well on the SAT doesn't our government limit on the choices the person has? they are denied "these schools b/c your score and your GPA are bad" the war, it's just crap. it just the clean up of daddy's job, "costofwar.com, Instead, we could have hired
16,258
additional public school teachers for one year. "

side note... America is going to end up having another depression... and this is from somebody who voted for bush for his first time, this person said "i voted for him because at least he has help from his father"...

[TrongaMonga]

The GPA thingie as little to do with the school, it's not a grade of the school. The only thing it can relate to the school is if not many people of that school have a big GPA, and that's seldom the school's fault. It's a lot more usually the fault of the neighbourhood it is on.

GPA is made to seperate the intelligent from the working from the lazy from the dumb students. There are several degrees of GPA for a reason, and it's not all about the knowledge of a student. The thinking of a student during a test is also evaluated for a reason.

[Undead Cheese]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

The president only 32% of the population likes threw 1/14th of your economy away and got nothing to show for it.

Just thrown away? Since I seriously doubt the government just burned / burried the money in such a way that it would be an economic sink, I'm going to assume that at least a sizeable portion was injected back into the economy through payments made to defense contractors and military personnel. Anyway, let's compare some figures (just because I think they're insane).

U.S. military expenditures (2005): $518.1 billion
Next top 43 countries combined: $517.9 billion