Shanghai Cooperation Organization

[Bret]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

Meanwhile they still have the world's largest army and in an event of war are prepared to mobilize over 200 mil. So in between tearing down moral values they can really easily tear down US army.

China has been literally breeding an army for a long time now. But I don't care how many people they have, they would never make it to our shores.

and we are the largest exporter of arms on earth. We are arming China right now.

Don't you feel proud of yourself for arming nations. Wow, that reminds me of that one movie, "god of war".

SCO did do stuff, we kicked the yanks out of Uzbekistan and we had a bundle of joint military exercises against terrorists. (during those exercises our marines took beaches and fought in the country, because i guess the terrorists like their beaches. Just something to think about, the motivation for those exercises.)

We? Who is we? lol. I don't want to know. I'm suprised they had any exercises against the people they are arming. Oh wait, nevermind, thats France. Oh wait, nevermind, that both Russia and France.

[Гражданин СССР]

France? What are you talking about?

"God of War" is an awesome movie.

We had joint exercises with China, Kazahstan and i think we're about to have some with Usbekistan.

[Bret]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/09/te...pagewanted=all

China's economy operates on a game? Oh boy, that really shows economic stability.

[B)ushid(o]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

@Bushido

EU countries do have top-line equipment but so does Russia and Russian and Chinese equipment vastly outnumbers that of the west.

The Chinese may have a vast amount of equipment in service, but most of it is old and obsolete. Russia, on the other hand, does not have a large enough budget to put into production many of their projects and has had some projects cancelled as well. The military's constantly has budget problems.

The number of aircraft and vehicles the Russian and Chinese have equal to or maybe just a bit more than the large EU nations, when comparing modern equipment. The biggest advantage they have is how much infantry they are able to field.

Originally Posted by PauseBreak

China's economy operates on a game? Oh boy, that really shows economic stability.

[/sarcasm]?

[Sly]

So who is the number one world power right now?

[Forged]

Meanwhile they still have the world's largest army and in an event of war are prepared to mobilize over 200 mil. So in between tearing down moral values they can really easily tear down US army.

I am going to reiterate quite a few things that have already been said.
China doesn't have the ability to mobolize 200million soilders. They couldn't get them to western europe or america. Assuming they could, who would the decide to fight? Any EU country would call on the other members of the EU, the U.S, and all of our allies. The slaughter that would ensue would make the russian casualty rate of ww2 seem lite.

Eh, military hardware wise Japan is nothere near the top, US and Russia are at the top. And yes Russia does produce some very good equipment and we are the largest exporter of arms on earth. We are arming China right now.

The U.S has infintelly more funding than Russia, we also have isreal which is one of the leading designers of weaponry, also with plenty of funding.

SCO did do stuff, we kicked the yanks out of Uzbekistan

Uzbekistan is around the same size as a mid sized u.s state, and has a population of ~27,000,000, congradulations....

EU countries do have top-line equipment but so does Russia and Russian and Chinese equipment vastly outnumbers that of the west.

I doubt that.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Forged

I am going to reiterate quite a few things that have already been said.
China doesn't have the ability to mobolize 200million soilders. They couldn't get them to western europe or america. Assuming they could, who would the decide to fight? Any EU country would call on the other members of the EU, the U.S, and all of our allies. The slaughter that would ensue would make the russian casualty rate of ww2 seem lite.

Eh...no...not really...Russia can take on the whole NATO minues US just by itself, EU is not militaristic at all, numbers of their military equipment are misery exept for say UK and Germany, but even combined they are nothing compared to the nearly a douzen thousand tanks Russia has.

The U.S has infintelly more funding than Russia, we also have isreal which is one of the leading designers of weaponry, also with plenty of funding.

Yeah? So? Our equipment is cheaper and more reliable plus we don't throw away as much money as you do.

Uzbekistan is around the same size as a mid sized u.s state, and has a population of ~27,000,000, congradulations....

Thanks.

I doubt that.

You may doubt a fact but its still a fact.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by SlyFie

So who is the number one world power right now?

The Coalition. The United States and parts of Europe.

I really cannot see the SCO becoming a huge force. China is still suffering with communism and is a rather poor country. Russia on the other hand, still has the effects of a socialistic government. Thus holding them back. While the United States is only becoming more socialistic. =\ Russia has some "free" things that we don't and visa versa.

[Forged]

but even combined they are nothing compared to the nearly a douzen tanks Russia has.

You are high if you don't think the U.S would help the U.K in a fight. And the U.S could destroy russia with some ease if need be.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by PauseBreak

The Coalition. The United States and parts of Europe.

I really cannot see the SCO becoming a huge force. China is still suffering with communism and is a rather poor country. Russia on the other hand, still has the effects of a socialistic government. Thus holding them back. While the United States is only becoming more socialistic. =\ Russia has some "free" things that we don't and visa versa.

China is poor country? Suffering with communism? They made the system work economically, their GDP is almost equal that of the United States their government is not poor. Russia holding who back? What are you talking about? How is Russia supplying China with oil, natural gas and arms at cheaper costs then they could buy in the west holding China back?

Originally Posted by Forged

You are high if you don't think the U.S would help the U.K in a fight. And the U.S could destroy russia with some ease if need be.

I never said that, i was just making a point that EU and NATO on itself without US are not much of a military force. Now you claim that US could destroy Russia with ease, that is ridiculus if there is a war between Russia and US it would be long and bloody for both sides, and it will all end with one side nuking the other. US hasn't had any war with a nation that used sophisticated technologies in such quantities as Russia does, the ability of US to win so fast in say Iraq was provided by their air dominance, in Russia they wouldn't be able to achieve that because of the sheer amount and quality of Russian fighters paired with Triumph air defense system which is rated best in the world, on the ground we have US outnumbered in number of tanks and armored vehicles while operating on a scale it has never had before (Russia is quite large) and facing not some "i-can't-shoot-a-wall" Iraqies but Russian soldiers experienced from fighting in Chechnya and unlike the terrorists Russian army is organized. No way US could succesfully invade Russia, same is true the other way around though, Russia can't invade US. A WW2 american general said once "First rule of war, don't march on Moscow", history prooves him right.

[Sly]

So America and the Coalition is the number one world power?

[B)ushid(o]

Originally Posted by Гражданин СССР

China is poor country? Suffering with communism? They made the system work economically, their GDP is almost equal that of the United States their government is not poor.

Per Capita, China is among the poorest in the world.

US hasn't had any war with a nation that used sophisticated technologies in such quantities as Russia does, the ability of US to win so fast in say Iraq was provided by their air dominance, in Russia they wouldn't be able to achieve that because of the sheer amount and quality of Russian fighters paired with Triumph air defense system which is rated best in the world

The U.S outnumbers Russia in aircraft, with Russia just having more bombers than the U.S.

n the ground we have US outnumbered in number of tanks and armored vehicles while operating on a scale it has never had before (Russia is quite large) and facing not some "i-can't-shoot-a-wall" Iraqies but Russian soldiers experienced from fighting in Chechnya and unlike the terrorists Russian army is organized.

If the Black Eagle project hadn't stalled, they could easily beat any other tank, but even if they have a massive number of tanks now, we, or another country, could easily build up to the level of your army. Size in peace doesn't matter. All modern tanks are pretty much equals.

Eh...no...not really...Russia can take on the whole NATO minues US just by itself, EU is not militaristic at all, numbers of their military equipment are misery exept for say UK and Germany, but even combined they are nothing compared to the nearly a douzen thousand tanks Russia has.

Of which, most are just T-72s.

Counting only T-80s and 90's, the EU, altogether, matches or comes closely, to how much Russia has. But size in peace really doesn't matter.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by B)ushid(o

Per Capita, China is among the poorest in the world.

How does that matter?

The U.S outnumbers Russia in aircraft, with Russia just having more bombers than the U.S.

Hmm, are you sure about that?

If the Black Eagle project hadn't stalled, they could easily beat any other tank, but even if they have a massive number of tanks now, we, or another country, could easily build up to the level of your army. Size in peace doesn't matter. All modern tanks are pretty much equals.

Of which, most are just T-72s.

Counting only T-80s and 90's, the EU, altogether, matches or comes closely, to how much Russia has. But size in peace really doesn't matter.

Our T-72s are largerly modified not the prehistoric models Iraqies have. Also Black Eagle is being designed by Russia exclusively for export we are not going to field any of them, the tank we are building for ourselves is a T-95 with a 155 mm main gun(Modern american tanks have German 120mm main guns, modern Russian tanks have 125 mm main guns, however american ammunition is better.)

Size in peace does matter, its not like there is a machine that turns dollars into tanks, building an adequate tank force would take months for EU or anyone and with the nature of today's warfare the war would probably be lost for EU by then.

[Forged]

"and it will all end with one side nuking the other"
I doubt either country is stupid enough to do that.

"No way US could succesfully invade Russia"
I don't think they would try, at least not by themselves, and it would be mostlly air I would imagine

"on the ground we have US outnumbered"
As an industrial nation we could raise whatever needed to be raised with haste. We also have way more allies than Russia, in a ww3 situation like that it would be russia and china vs. the rest of the civilized world.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by Forged

"and it will all end with one side nuking the other"
I doubt either country is stupid enough to do that.

Eh a possibility of this stupidity is what kept Soviet Union and US from having a conventional war during the Cold War and there were several instances then the world came close to ending. Believe it or not, use of nuclear force is a strong possibility in an event of war between Russia and USA.

"No way US could succesfully invade Russia"
I don't think they would try, at least not by themselves, and it would be mostlly air I would imagine

Yeah, probably. US would loose in the air though as well, no way they will be able to achieve air superiority over Russia with our Triumph system shooting them down.

"on the ground we have US outnumbered"
As an industrial nation we could raise whatever needed to be raised with haste. We also have way more allies than Russia, in a ww3 situation like that it would be russia and china vs. the rest of the civilized world.

Thats highly unlikely, first of all it depends on the situation, second of all India would be on our side, as well as some minor countries like Belorussia, Kazahstan, Usbekistan and so on. But many nations will remain neutral so in an even of war it would probably be Shanghai Cooperation Organization plus India versus NATO. Numbers favor SCO.

[micro.micro]

they are probably going to be the next super power if the USA keeps going on in its arrogant diplomacy. they just rejected the kyoto pact which probably would have helped ease relationships with our european allies. the diplomacy of our government doesn't include foresight. all they care about is what is best for the USA in the present.

i read a post that said the SCO is going to need more than china and russia.
ok so the fact both of those countries combined have a 2 billion population which is over quadruple what we have in the US doesn't intimidate you at all?
china's economics dominates the US', they purposely devalue their currency in order to keep producing cheap goods and destroy the US economy.
how do you think we got such a huge deficit? the war in iraq? please. we import WAYYY more than we export in the US. our deficit is from trading not fighting. China is waging a silent war with the US. why do you think our redneck president made a trip there? he is trying to get them to import more US goods. just think about it if every chinese citizen spent ONE dollar on US goods, that would be 1.3 billion dollars right there.

[TheJanitor]

Sorry otmo I must disagree with you here, this is no longer imperialistic times, where military and amount of men in battle was everything. China has ties with America and europe aswell, I don't you think that china and Russia do the world a favour by exporting, believe me, if everyone stopped buying Russian exports a lot of people would starve, Russia would be ****ed up like almost every country would, they depend on selling their export.

To put it differently, imagine me opening up a corner shop or whatever, selling anything then telling regular customers that they depend on me... does it seem right? If I lost 50% of my customers I wouldn't be able to support myself like I could where the customers have other shops they could go to.

If you don't count US, Russia alone has more military power then the whole NATO, and EU isn't a military power at all, never will be

That's a lie and we both know it. And never will be? You have the nerve to pretend to be able to pretentic the future for centuries to come?

Look at the Eurofighter, The Air Bus A380? Why would I name the largest passenger plane in the world? Because with these projects the Wings can be made in England, the fuselage in france and Electronics in Germany and assembled elsewhere (No this is not polictally correct but you get my point.) This shows real unison not a few Army excercises that almost all allies have partaken with eachother. The currency, a strong one at that also shows a higher degree of unison and relations.

I believe that making such high spec products both for military and comercial reasons in this manner are making better relations and better products, now AirBus are starting to really compete with rival Boeing and I believe the A380 may tip the scales. You see, this specialisation of different countries to making different parts is going to be the key to all kinds of european military products in the future.

Oh yeah getting back to the point, we both know that the EU has a powerful advanced military, and I wouldn't bet in a hurry than Chian and Russia could invade europe. Unless China plans to teleport 200 million of their 'mobilisational troops' on europe along with enough food for months or years of fighting while maintaining their forces off their own land while dealing with massive economic problems caused by starting the war. Neither could invade eachother right now.

In addition EU doesn't have the numbers and is not at all militaristically centered, it has no military goals

Why is the US so powerful? Not because of it's military but because of it's massive economy and that's why china is growing aswell but don't be fooled into thinking that thier grow will remain stable and forever.

Then compared to SCO's manpower EU's manpower is not that big at all.

Ok... The EU has a smaller man power than China and Russia although America has less manpower than europe but you think you can defeat all the world except America because of your massive numbers... hmm

Numbers aren't the only factor, and Russians were never very good at making their numbers count, especially in world war 2, you lost so many more millions than the germans It wasn't even funny. Many countries like Britain have defeated enemies with more than 10 to one numerical advantages in the past, that can't happen again? Many countries have tried in the past to try conquer Europe in the past but have failed and they had a bigger lead or better odds than Russia and China.

Ah China has a GDP almost the size of US's plus a much higher GDP growth rate. Also Russia has is THE natural resources rich country. We're first in natural gas, second in oil (production), among the first ones in gold, coal and everything else, plus our economy is growing rather rapidly in addition we are the largest military arms supplier on earth. And our arms are either better or just as capable of whatever US has to offer. Neither US nor EU can do anything, EU is completely reliant on Russia for energy resources and US is completely reliant on China for most of its consumer goods production.

Completely reliant? Bullshit, remember this goes both ways, you'd be ****ed if you stopped trading with the EU and America so would china. You brag about natural resources? China are will be more powerful than Russia soon if not already, they have progressed so much by machining goods and getting a lot more money for them than the raw goods. 3rd world countries in africa and the middle east have lots of oil too.

Meanwhile they still have the world's largest army and in an event of war are prepared to mobilize over 200 mil.

They may have 200 million fit men in their country but not enough equipment to supply them all and most of them aren't trained at all let alone suffienctly. Just counting all the men old enough to fight and fit enough to fight does not give a accurate figure.

Eh, military hardware wise Japan is nothere near the top, US and Russia are at the top. And yes Russia does produce some very good equipment and we are the largest exporter of arms on earth. We are arming China right now.

You could be selling lots and lots of AK47s, being the largest exporter of arms doesn't mean your arms are the best.

Eh...no...not really...Russia can take on the whole NATO minues US just by itself, EU is not militaristic at all, numbers of their military equipment are misery exept for say UK and Germany, but even combined they are nothing compared to the nearly a douzen thousand tanks Russia has.

Erm Russia can take everyone by itself... no. By itself Russia would be struggling to feed it's people let alone fight a war. Don't you still recieve aid... The equipment is fine, better than in russians in a lot of areas. The world is changing their miltary forces, bigger isn't better and neither is more. Countries are adapting smaller more effiecient, more mobile, better trained Armies of today and the future, Russia may not have clocked on to this yet but that's where things are heading.

Our T-72s are largerly modified not the prehistoric models Iraqies have. Also Black Eagle is being designed by Russia exclusively for export we are not going to field any of them, the tank we are building for ourselves is a T-95 with a 155 mm main gun(Modern american tanks have German 120mm main guns, modern Russian tanks have 125 mm main guns, however american ammunition is better.)

Bigger gun = better tank? No. Comparing sizes of guns is not much of anything.

Size in peace does matter, its not like there is a machine that turns dollars into tanks, building an adequate tank force would take months for EU or anyone and with the nature of today's warfare the war would probably be lost for EU by then.

No there isn't but look at what America and Russia did in world war two, in the time they had they mass produced thousands opon thousands of tanks, planes, guns ect ect. A war doesn't last a few months.

Russian soldiers experienced from fighting in Chechnya and unlike the terrorists Russian army is organized. No way US could succesfully invade Russia, same is true the other way around though, Russia can't invade US. A WW2 american general said once "First rule of war, don't march on Moscow", history prooves him right.

That last bit is completely right, but I don't think anyones going to try invade russia any time soon. The reason the Americans are still fighting in Iraq isn't to do with whether they're trained and organised (convectionally anyway) but because of their urban guerilla tactics. A convectional army would find an organised, convectional army like russia or china easier to defeat than guerillas.

Per Capita, China is among the poorest in the world.

That means they won't be able to outfit each capita aswell as the other countries can.

I'm going to leave it as I have already made this post too long.

Oh yeah, If Russia and China are so independant tell me why more chinese speak English than Americans.

[Гражданин СССР]

Originally Posted by micro.micro

they are probably going to be the next super power if the USA keeps going on in its arrogant diplomacy. they just rejected the kyoto pact which probably would have helped ease relationships with our european allies. the diplomacy of our government doesn't include foresight. all they care about is what is best for the USA in the present.

i read a post that said the SCO is going to need more than china and russia.
ok so the fact both of those countries combined have a 2 billion population which is over quadruple what we have in the US doesn't intimidate you at all?
china's economics dominates the US', they purposely devalue their currency in order to keep producing cheap goods and destroy the US economy.
how do you think we got such a huge deficit? the war in iraq? please. we import WAYYY more than we export in the US. our deficit is from trading not fighting. China is waging a silent war with the US. why do you think our redneck president made a trip there? he is trying to get them to import more US goods. just think about it if every citizen spent ONE dollar on US goods, that would be 1.3 billion dollars right there.

I agree with all you say. China is dominating the US economy. Chinese GDP is not so far from being equal to US's and their GDP growth is much greater. In addition Russia is taking steps in placing itself as a dominant energy trading nation in the world. The only way out is to start reducing the Chinese imports and making the textile and small productions markets more friendly for US and European companies, right now China completely dominates those markets. Of course creating such an environment would mean higher prices on the consumer goods that are currently being manufactured in China. So it all depends on the governments and the people's commintment to this issue, which i don't think exists very much in US.

Originally Posted by TheJanitor

Sorry otmo I must disagree with you here, this is no longer imperialistic times, where military and amount of men in battle was everything. China has ties with America and europe aswell, I don't you think that china and Russia do the world a favour by exporting, believe me, if everyone stopped buying Russian exports a lot of people would starve, Russia would be ****ed up like almost every country would, they depend on selling their export.

We depend on exporting natural resources such as gas, gold oil and so on if thats what you mean, but yes you're correct, at this point we would get ****ed up, however not immediately, we have learned from the 1998 economic crisis and our current system will allow us to function for some time if our exporting system fails to bring profit.

That's a lie and we both know it. And never will be? You have the nerve to pretend to be able to pretentic the future for centuries to come?

I never said that there will have to be war, but using our resource advantage to exert political pressure is completely feasible. A country doesn't need to physically go to war to be a superpower, remember the Cold War?

Look at the Eurofighter, The Air Bus A380? Why would I name the largest passenger plane in the world? Because with these projects the Wings can be made in England, the fuselage in france and Electronics in Germany and assembled elsewhere (No this is not polictally correct but you get my point.) This shows real unison not a few Army excercises that almost all allies have partaken with eachother. The currency, a strong one at that also shows a higher degree of unison and relations.

Well first of all Russian electronis just like everybodies electronics are mostly made in Taiwan, second of all we have been cooperating with the French on the SU-37 Superflunker

I believe that making such high spec products both for military and comercial reasons in this manner are making better relations and better products, now AirBus are starting to really compete with rival Boeing and I believe the A380 may tip the scales. You see, this specialisation of different countries to making different parts is going to be the key to all kinds of european military products in the future.

Of course, but whats your point? We are cooperating with the rest of the world on some of our latest projects, such as the Black Eagle MBT and PAK-FA 5th generation air superiority fighter. Also we are cooperating with EU, China, India, South Korea and many others on their space programs. Just yesterday an EU GPS satelite was succesfully launched into orbit by Russian rocket. Also US and Russia have been cooperating on working on new boosters, creating some of the best space technology ever seen.

Oh yeah getting back to the point, we both know that the EU has a powerful advanced military, and I wouldn't bet in a hurry than Chian and Russia could invade europe. Unless China plans to teleport 200 million of their 'mobilisational troops' on europe along with enough food for months or years of fighting while maintaining their forces off their own land while dealing with massive economic problems caused by starting the war. Neither could invade eachother right now.

Eh...EU doesn't have a powerful military.

Why is the US so powerful? Not because of it's military but because of it's massive economy and that's why china is growing aswell but don't be fooled into thinking that thier grow will remain stable and forever.

Don't be fooled into thinking that US will always on top.

Ok... The EU has a smaller man power than China and Russia although America has less manpower than europe but you think you can defeat all the world except America because of your massive numbers... hmm

Not just numbers of men, but also numbers and quality of military hardware.

Numbers aren't the only factor, and Russians were never very good at making their numbers count, especially in world war 2, you lost so many more millions than the germans It wasn't even funny.

We have inflicted higher casualties then received in most every major offensive we waged on our own soil, Stalingrad, Belorussian Offensive, Winter Offensive of 1943. Once we closed onto the Germans and our supply lines became overstretched thats then we started suffering heavy casualties due to faulty tactics. However Russian military right now is nothing like it was in 1940s.

Many countries like Britain have defeated enemies with more than 10 to one numerical advantages in the past, that can't happen again? Many countries have tried in the past to try conquer Europe in the past but have failed and they had a bigger lead or better odds than Russia and China. Completely reliant? Bullshit, remember this goes both ways, you'd be ****ed if you stopped trading with the EU and America so would china. You brag about natural resources? China are will be more powerful than Russia soon if not already, they have progressed so much by machining goods and getting a lot more money for them than the raw goods. 3rd world countries in africa and the middle east have lots of oil too.

Russian and China combined are a much bigger threat to Europe then ever existed if we wanted to be such a threat, however we simply do not.

They may have 200 million fit men in their country but not enough equipment to supply them all and most of them aren't trained at all let alone suffienctly. Just counting all the men old enough to fight and fit enough to fight does not give a accurate figure. You could be selling lots and lots of AK47s, being the largest exporter of arms doesn't mean your arms are the best.

But they are, the AK-47s you see your casual terrorist using is a poor quality rip off probably made somethere in Africa. An average terrorist can't afford to buy a quality Russian made AK-74. Also our arms and military hardware are competitive with any of their equivalents in the vest, plus simpler to maintain, more durable and cheaper.

Erm Russia can take everyone by itself... no. By itself Russia would be struggling to feed it's people let alone fight a war. Don't you still recieve aid...

We can perfectly afford to feed ourselves.

The equipment is fine, better than in russians in a lot of areas. The world is changing their miltary forces, bigger isn't better and neither is more. Countries are adapting smaller more effiecient, more mobile, better trained Armies of today and the future, Russia may not have clocked on to this yet but that's where things are heading.

Russia is changing its military force as well, we are switching to a more professional, more hitech, more mobile force. By 2005 50% of Russian servicemen will be on cotract basis meaning, like in US they will be trained professionals. In 10 years our whole force would be on contract basis.

Bigger gun = better tank? No. Comparing sizes of guns is not much of anything.

Agreed, lets compare other statistics, a rocket assisted projectile fired from a T-90 125 mm cannon can punch through 700 mm RHA (standard measure of armor, 1 mm RHA = 1 mm steel) at 4000 m (4 km), front armor of Abrams is 800 mm RHA, side armor is half that. Meanwhile Abrams APSDFS depleted uranium round can not penetrate through Kontakt-5 External Reactive Armor fielded by T-90 at 2000 m. T-90 is lighter and faster and also cost wise you can build 2 T-90s at a cost of one Abrams. Now tell me which tank is better?

No there isn't but look at what America and Russia did in world war two, in the time they had they mass produced thousands opon thousands of tanks, planes, guns ect ect. A war doesn't last a few months.That last bit is completely right, but I don't think anyones going to try invade russia any time soon. The reason the Americans are still fighting in Iraq isn't to do with whether they're trained and organised (convectionally anyway) but because of their urban guerilla tactics. A convectional army would find an organised, convectional army like russia or china easier to defeat than guerillas.

True, but an organized conventional army such as Russian or Chinese would find it easier to defeat an organized conventional army such as US Army then to defeat a guerilla fighting force such as one in Chechnya and Dagestan.

I'm going to leave it as I have already made this post too long.

Oh yeah, If Russia and China are so independant tell me why more chinese speak English than Americans.

Eh? Because there are more educated Chinese then educated Americans.

[micro.micro]

OMG DO YOU EVEN RESEARCH ANYTHING BEFORE YOU POST?

you say china's army is inadequately trained?
http://english.people.com.cn/english...017_52801.html

http://english.sina.com/china/1/2004/1227/15352.html

china's military sucks? no, in fact, they're improving and gaining more momemtum than the US army and their soilders have better moral due to more efficient propaganda and mandatory enlistment.

you know that china purposely devalues it's currency so that it can continue to produce cheap goods and profit from trading. that explains their low per capita. they in fact have a better economy than the us and russia.

"Oh yeah, If Russia and China are so independant tell me why more chinese speak English than Americans."

i don't know about russia, but for china alot more people speak chinese than english (this includes all the dialects of chinese). you're probably making this crude steriotype based on all those chinese movies you've seen that are based in hong kong which was controled by the british, an english speaking country for half a century....

[TheJanitor]

Originally Posted by micro.micro

OMG DO YOU EVEN RESEARCH ANYTHING BEFORE YOU POST?

you say china's army is inadequately trained?
http://english.people.com.cn/english...017_52801.html

http://english.sina.com/china/1/2004/1227/15352.html

china's military sucks? no, in fact, they're improving and gaining more momemtum than the US army and their soilders have better moral due to more efficient propaganda and mandatory enlistment.

Ok laddy I see the confusion you made so I'm not going to bash you for it. "A total of 2,090,000 personnel are under arms in China." Ok so, only 2 million out of 200 million (that are fit to fight) are actually in the army thus have army training the rest of them aren't likely to have sufficient army training. I never said they're army sucked, I meant that not all the men in the whole of china that could possibly fight have the actually army training from the chinese military, which I have no doubt is very good. Of course they have more momentum, there making radical changes for the better, this will slow down in a few years time.

you know that china purposely devalues it's currency so that it can continue to produce cheap goods and profit from trading. that explains their low per capita. they in fact have a better economy than the us and russia.

Another common mistake, I may have missed this myself. Exchange rate has nothing to do with the GDP per capita.

The exhange rate is how much a certain currency is valued compared to another. Like the chinese equilivant of a american dollar is 0.123913 of a American, this means you need about 10 yuan for every dollar. Now I know this can have benefits but is nothing to do with the GDP.

Now the GDP is the 'gross domestic product (basically all their money) and GDP per capita is if all the money was shared out equally amongst all the people how much they would each get (this is usually measured anually how much they would make per year).

The Chinese GDP per capita is 5600 dollars while luxemburg GDP per capita (is ranked no.1) is 58,900 dollars. China is ranbked about 121 richest by this method. That means they're gonna have a hard time dishing out enough cash if they were to include ever 200 million of the chinese fighting fit (remember only 2 million are in the army already equiped.

"Oh yeah, If Russia and China are so independant tell me why more chinese speak English than Americans."

i don't know about russia, but for china alot more people speak chinese than english (this includes all the dialects of chinese). you're probably making this crude steriotype based on all those chinese movies you've seen that are based in hong kong which was controled by the british, an english speaking country for half a century....

It's not a crude sterotype, and they'res 2 main chinese laguage chinese and a simplified version. Now what I said is that more chinese people speak English that Americans, with the massive population of china, that is actually completely true. I never said more people in china speak English than chinese but nvm. Last time I checked over 65% of the world speak English, this was a result of the British Empire and the importance of trading with English speaking countries these days i.e America.

England, has only been a English speaking country for 50 years? I guess you confused century with some other amount of time.


You wern't wrong in much you said to be absolutely honest but more so a little muddled up with some things I said and the whole GDP thing.

I agree with all you say. China is dominating the US economy. Chinese GDP is not so far from being equal to US's and their GDP growth is much greater. In addition Russia is taking steps in placing itself as a dominant energy trading nation in the world. The only way out is to start reducing the Chinese imports and making the textile and small productions markets more friendly for US and European companies, right now China completely dominates those markets. Of course creating such an environment would mean higher prices on the consumer goods that are currently being manufactured in China. So it all depends on the governments and the people's commintment to this issue, which i don't think exists very much in US.

Very well put sir, I do agree.

We depend on exporting natural resources such as gas, gold oil and so on if thats what you mean, but yes you're correct, at this point we would get ****ed up, however not immediately, we have learned from the 1998 economic crisis and our current system will allow us to function for some time if our exporting system fails to bring profit.

Oh I wouldn't doubt that the Russia economy would hold up for some time but it would be extremely bad for it.

I never said that there will have to be war, but using our resource advantage to exert political pressure is completely feasible. A country doesn't need to physically go to war to be a superpower, remember the Cold War?

I know this, I tried to stress this point, but you said that the E.U didn't have military.

Well first of all Russian electronis just like everybodies electronics are mostly made in Taiwan, second of all we have been cooperating with the French on the SU-37 Superflunker

A lot of American electronics are also, that's the cooperation that makes great aircraft.

Of course, but whats your point? We are cooperating with the rest of the world on some of our latest projects, such as the Black Eagle MBT and PAK-FA 5th generation air superiority fighter. Also we are cooperating with EU, China, India, South Korea and many others on their space programs. Just yesterday an EU GPS satelite was succesfully launched into orbit by Russian rocket. Also US and Russia have been cooperating on working on new boosters, creating some of the best space technology ever seen.

Yes, and the E.U are extremely close, it's more than 'cooperation' it's almost complete reliance on eachother to make each part.

Eh...EU doesn't have a powerful military.

The numbers may not be as high as Russias but they have highly trained and advanced compact militaries.

Not just numbers of men, but also numbers and quality of military hardware.

The quality of E.U products I'm looking at, they can easily match or better most of the