Give Muslims Israel.

[Schizophrenic]

I have been looking into the whole issue with terrorists and have found acouple things that support the war and religious rights. Not only is this a war it is the Jihad, or to us, crusades.

Once in my ignorance I found Muslims to be insane fanatics with no reasons of attacking Israel and the US.

They are still towelheads.

Be that as it may the Muslims have just cause for waging Jihad. I found out after WW2 The Jews were given Arab land and had muslims kicked out of their own land just because of the ordeal they went through.

The Turban fighters surround these pathetic jews over 10:1 in landmass. If it wasn't for the American's help they would be toast.

Very much so, but they still have one of the most powerful armies.

Because of the USA,dead is what they are on their own.

Anyway, All the Muslims are doing is seeing it as their religious right to get their holy city back. This happened once before in the 1000's when the Pope found it his religious right to attack the Arabs because they were on their holy land. Jerusalam is Holy land to 3 religions.

But it was different, the arabs were being attacked, and frankly thats alright.

Ok then. All I am saying is the Arabs, to them, have just cause to attack and the other countries shouldn't look at them like lunatics, although they are abit loose.

[TrongaMonga]

The Turban fighters surround these pathetic jews over 10:1 in landmass. If it wasn't for the American's help they would be toast.

That ain't true at all. Israel has one of the best military in the world, and I speak of human resources. Well, it's partially true. If it wasn't for the american's sells of weapons, they'd be toast. But, then again, Arabs only have AKs, so, yeah...

But it's totally unfair to the arabs. Why didn't they get a chunk out of Germany and made it Israel?

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Schizophrenic

Be that as it may the Muslims have just cause for waging Jihad. I found out after WW2 The Jews were given Arab land and had muslims kicked out of their own land just because of the ordeal they went through.

...

Anyway, All the Muslims are doing is seeing it as their religious right to get their holy city back. This happened once before in the 1000's when the Pope found it his religious right to attack the Arabs because they were on their holy land. Jerusalam is Holy land to 3 religions.

But it was different, the arabs were being attacked, and frankly thats alright.

Ok then. All I am saying is the Arabs, to them, have just cause to attack and the other countries shouldn't look at them like lunatics, although they are abit loose.

There is nothing in Islam that justifies the killing of innocent people. Islam is one of the most peaceful religions on earth, the word Islam itself comes from the word silm meaning peace. The Quran itself tells to apply the minimum amount of force and not to hurt innocents. Perhaps your opinion is that it is a just war, but no one living the word of Allah through apply the Quran to their life is going to believe that.

And now let's go to who the land actually belongs to according to the holy books of Judaism and Islam. From a Jewish perspective, they believe the land is both their Holy Land and Promised Land and was given to them by God Then the LORD said to him, "this is the land which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, 'I will give it to your descendants'; I have let you see it with your eyes, but you shall not go over there."(Torah - Deuteronomy 34:4). From an Islamic perspective, you can take a look at the Quran and see, "Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you, and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers." (Quran - Chapter 5:20-21). If it "has [been] written" the Holy Land to belong to the Jews by Allah then it is an immutable arrangement.

So there you have it, from an Islamic perspective they have no 'just cause' to take back the Holy Land. This argument is only taking in the religious aspects; the complete political aspects of the whole thing are beyond my knowledge.

I do agree that what westerners consider terrorists should not be considered lunatics though.

[Schizophrenic]

Originally Posted by TrongaMonga

That ain't true at all. Israel has one of the best military in the world, and I speak of human resources. Well, it's partially true. If it wasn't for the american's sells of weapons, they'd be toast. But, then again, Arabs only have AKs, so, yeah...

I am aware, I did state they have one of the most powerful armies. But the americans do aid them quite alot. He was just clearifying the extent of the American support.

Don't defend my statements.

Originally Posted by tipsy

There is nothing in Islam that justifies the killing of innocent people. Islam is one of the most peaceful religions on earth, the word Islam itself comes from the word silm meaning peace. The Quran itself tells to apply the minimum amount of force and not to hurt innocents. Perhaps your opinion is that it is a just war, but no one living the word of Allah through apply the Quran to their life is going to believe that.

I am aware that the muslims of the average people are very religious and non violent. My statement was regarding the Extremists like bin Laden and his rebels who find just cause in attacking.

[Emperor Pan I]

You just learned that now? Isreal has been under fire for the past 50 years. The problem is neither side is justified. The Palestinians (They arn't "OMG TOWEL HEADS") lived on that land for almost 1500 years, then the Jews come in aided by the united states and kick them off thier land. The Arabs fight back. Neither side is right, and neither side is the winner in a war, becuase everyone loses.

The United States think they can walk over everyone but you can't. The "Extremists" Are only born out of the oppression. You can recruit people to this cuase, because you can put a face on evil. The muslims do it with the United States, and the United States do it on Bin laden, then on Saddam. It is all a ploy, neither side is right. Terrorist blow up two towers, the United states decades before have killed triple that number both directly and indirectly.

[l33t 0n3]

Well, I recently asked my Dad about this issue, having known that he was asked by the government to become an intelligence expert on middle eastern affairs. Based on that, I'd venture to guess he knows way more about the middle east than all of us, considering our knowledge is limited to a very selective media. He knows a lot about this, and he was more that happy to justify what is actually behind this struggle. If I get anything wrong here, I appologize. This is all off of memory. Also, before I go on, he is neither a democrat or a republican, but if he had to pick, he would be a democrat. In essence, a quite complex plan for Syria to spread hatred for the Jews. That may sound a bit extreme, but I'll get to explaining that later. What we can seem to agree on is that both sides of the struggle strongly believe that Israel belongs to them, and that they also hate eachother. Did you ever care to notice that the Syrians never offered the Palistinean refugees to become Syrian citezens, gave them little supplies, and did not help them construct the buildings they have today? They know that the average person doesn't look very deeply into an issue and thus it seems that the Israelies are to blame for what has happened to the Palistineans. They've done well in doing this. The Palistineans are being used by the Syrians to portray this image of anti-semetism. Now, I'll ask you to name one offensive military action the Israelies have done to the Palistineans without being provoked? The Palistinean refugees are brainwashed into suicide bombing innocent Israelies, by the way.

@Pan, I suggest you read up on the issue before spewing your shit all over the thread. For one, the Jews didn't come in with American support and take the land. You're either being very vague and opinionated, very stupid, or mistaken with a different conflict. I recommend you read these before continuing to post about this issue, please... Its not that much reading.

Your second paragraph seems to point out to me that you were just trying to justify your skewed view on this issue, considering much of your rationale is very hard to sympathize with, and many of your facts are incorrect. Whatever, I'll give you a chance anyways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...inian_conflict
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

[Bret]

That ain't true at all. Israel has one of the best military in the world, and I speak of human resources. Well, it's partially true. If it wasn't for the american's sells of weapons, they'd be toast. But, then again, Arabs only have AKs, so, yeah...

This is true. Israel has a very good army. Even though it is supported by America. Pretty much just like every other country out there.

Islam is one of the most peaceful religions on earth, the word Islam itself comes from the word silm meaning peace.

I disagree. Islam is a religion of death. Tell me then why the majority of terrorists in the world are indeed Islamic. There are the well knowns, the PLO, Hamas, Black September, Al-Quaida, and they are just some of the many Islamic terrorist groups out there.
I'll give a brief history of the PLO:
The PLO was formed in 1964 as terrorist organization controled by Yasser Arafat's al-Fatah. Four years later Arafat became the chairman of the PLO. Then in 1974 he received recognition by the United Nations and by Arab states as a government in exile.

Too bad Palestine had to be recognized to be a State. :susp

Don't believe that Islam is so bad? Sure! Other countries have their terrorists as well. Even Israel. Here is a link. Please tell me why the Islamic and Palestinian groups have the longest list.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki..._organizations

The Jews and Muslims have been in that part of the world for a very long time. They have fought over land for many many years. The Jewish people have a very small piece of the land so why are the Muslims complaining and blowing things up all the time over a little piece of land. Because they want Jews dead. All of them.

Some of you remember 9/11. A bad day, now try living that everyday in Israel. These terrorist groups are only lead by the devil himself. Killing and murdering people, and we sit back and safely say..."killing is never justified" So we can't protect others? And "its their land anyway." Bullshit. This is one reason I voted for President Bush. At least he is taking care of these monsters.

[Firebat]

[edited] the jews didnt kick the arabs off their lands they BOUGHT it off them...[edited]....and the stupid arabs realised"oops we got the money, but i wanna go back to my worthless farm" and so all those arabs declared war on israel, and without [edited] american support kicked all of those arab asses in the 6 day war and jonkipur watever blabla

-----------------
Please refrain from using that language and flaming people.
-Tipsy

[thebastardsword]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I disagree. Islam is a religion of death. Tell me then why the majority of terrorists in the world are indeed Islamic. There are the well knowns, the PLO, Hamas, Black September, Al-Quaida, and they are just some of the many Islamic terrorist groups out there.
I'll give a brief history of the PLO:
The PLO was formed in 1964 as terrorist organization controled by Yasser Arafat's al-Fatah. Four years later Arafat became the chairman of the PLO. Then in 1974 he received recognition by the United Nations and by Arab states as a government in exile.

wernt all those organizations created in the past 50-60 years?

Don't believe that Islam is so bad? Sure! Other countries have their terrorists as well. Even Israel. Here is a link. Please tell me why the Islamic and Palestinian groups have the longest list.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki..._organizations

although im probably wrong, communism isnt such a bad form of gov. on paper, its the people that mess it up. Couldnt the same be said for islam? or any other religion for that matter?

The Jews and Muslims have been in that part of the world for a very long time. They have fought over land for many many years. The Jewish people have a very small piece of the land so why are the Muslims complaining and blowing things up all the time over a little piece of land. Because they want Jews dead. All of them.

50 years ago, didnt israel offer to share the land with the palastinians? anyways, im sure you would agree that not all muslims agree with the radicals, but how often does that make a good story?(reference to media)

Some of you remember 9/11. A bad day, now try living that everyday in Israel. These terrorist groups are only lead by the devil himself. Killing and murdering people, and we sit back and safely say..."killing is never justified" So we can't protect others? And "its their land anyway." Bullshit. This is one reason I voted for President Bush. At least he is taking care of these monsters.

isnt that the un's job?

i remember hearing that like one of the islam holy books cannot be read by commoners...but i might be confused with another religion from the area...

i believe it was the british that started sending isralies to palistine.

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I disagree. Islam is a religion of death. Tell me then why the majority of terrorists in the world are indeed Islamic. There are the well knowns, the PLO, Hamas, Black September, Al-Quaida, and they are just some of the many Islamic terrorist groups out there.
I'll give a brief history of the PLO:
The PLO was formed in 1964 as terrorist organization controled by Yasser Arafat's al-Fatah. Four years later Arafat became the chairman of the PLO. Then in 1974 he received recognition by the United Nations and by Arab states as a government in exile.

Too bad Palestine had to be recognized to be a State. :susp

Don't believe that Islam is so bad? Sure! Other countries have their terrorists as well. Even Israel. Here is a link. Please tell me why the Islamic and Palestinian groups have the longest list.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki..._organizations

So, since the people claim to be following the teachings of Islam they automatically are? For example, under the "Christian Terrorists" in the the list you provided in your link, the Klu Klux Klan is there. Those people claim to be doing what Jesus would have wanted in their religious terror, so does that mean they are doing what Jesus would have wanted? I guess since this one extremist group of Christains known as the KKK claims that white people are superior I guess that is what Jesus preached. Looks like Jesus preached hate, intolerance, and death, or atleast through the logic you have given he does.

I read the phrase somewhere that went along the lines of saying that when Osama Bin Laden had the planes hijacked on 9/11, that is not the only thing he hijacked, he hijacked Islam as well. Islam just seems to be the easiest religion to take advantage of these days.

Originally Posted by Cappy

The Jews and Muslims have been in that part of the world for a very long time. They have fought over land for many many years. The Jewish people have a very small piece of the land so why are the Muslims complaining and blowing things up all the time over a little piece of land. Because they want Jews dead. All of them.

And as I showed above, the Quran specifically quotes Moses saying that the land of Israel belongs to the Jews. To cite the verse from earlier, "Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you, and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers." (Quran - Chapter 5:20-21).

As it says, it "has [been] written" by Allah that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews. There is absolutely no justification for any person following the Quran as their holy book to believe otherwise. This isn't hatred from Islam, it is hatred from people who use Islam as a rallying cry.

Originally Posted by Cappy

Some of you remember 9/11. A bad day, now try living that everyday in Israel. These terrorist groups are only lead by the devil himself. Killing and murdering people, and we sit back and safely say..."killing is never justified" So we can't protect others? And "its their land anyway." Bullshit. This is one reason I voted for President Bush. At least he is taking care of these monsters.

Perhaps people are killed by terrorist groups everyday in Israel, but that doesn't mean the people who are doing it are following their religion. Perhaps with Afghanistan and Iraq becoming democracies with freedoms many people can read and learn what the Quran really means instead of rallying behind extremists. That is what needs to be done, though I personally do believe that this could have been done in a more peaceful fashion, as in without going to war with Iraq, but what is done is done and we must make the best of the situation.

If the political leaders and terrorist leaders in the Middle East were truly concerned with following the Quran they would be asking for Israel to gain land by restoring the land given to the twelve tribes of Israel by their god, Allah.

Originally Posted by Schizophrenic

I am aware that the muslims of the average people are very religious and non violent. My statement was regarding the Extremists like bin Laden and his rebels who find just cause in attacking.

My statement is that no Muslim, extremist or not, can justify destroying Israel, murdering innocent people, and so forth with the Quran. Some actions could be justified through the Quran if innocent people were not harmed, but they are in no way justified through their religion.

If you are saying that extremists do have a just cause to murder innocent people and destroy the state of Israel then please enlighten me. After all, you cannot honestly say the Muslims were kicked out of their land because the Jews were in that land before Islam was even created.

[l33t 0n3]

The Islam religion *is* one of the most peaceful ones there is, although most of the people abusing it such as terrorist are simply using it as a way to get people to follow their own beliefs. Islamic people take their religion incredibly seriously, and they will take about anyone's word for it. There is also the difference from what the author meant and how people interpreted it. I mean, Christianity is also a rather peaceful religion in essence, yet so much war is caused by it. I mean, most of the world's recent conflicts have to do with the Islamic people and that's a ****ing fact for all of you politically correct ****s out there, but on the other hand most of those conflicts have christains on the other side of them.

[aphextwin]

i really dont know whats the main, central belief of islamismsmsm, i thought they kill others to see their gods, thats why they took down the wtc

[Schizophrenic]

Originally Posted by newbie4lyfe

i really dont know whats the main, central belief of islamismsmsm, i thought they kill others to see their gods, thats why they took down the wtc

They attacked us because they felt they needed to. The WTC represented American wealth and trade in a small sense and to get rid of it was like getting rid apart of America.

Not to mention the death toll, thats good enough to kill that many infidels in one sitting.