Cloning

[Vadriel]

I find that cloning is a very big no-no, and simply because of this:

The military. They're idiots, particularly the US military. You KNOW they will use the cloning process to try and make an army of non-individual supersoldiers. It goes hand in hand with genetic engineering. If you can clone just particular parts, you can start piecing together a human being that is stronger, faster, and dumber than any natural human. The military would be so afraid of someone else getting them first, that they would make themselves a massive army of them and start parading around like they're number one again. Then, other countries get clone armies...and massive clone wars happen. Granted, war will happen as long as humans exist, and cloned armies cut down on the rest of us getting killed, but what about the clones? We have no idea of knowing if they will even be individuals, real people. Would it be murder to kill a clone? Do clones feel? Is sending an army of clones into a deathtrap the same as sending an army of natural people into one? It just raises too many questions, and needs to be avoided.

[Firebat]

what about the cloning so that you can use certain body parts for injured ppl? like in "the island" just that the clones dont have any concience

[Tupac Amaru Shakur]

Originally Posted by -[J'kar the Damned]-

I find that cloning is a very big no-no, and simply because of this:

The military. They're idiots, particularly the US military. You KNOW they will use the cloning process to try and make an army of non-individual supersoldiers. It goes hand in hand with genetic engineering. If you can clone just particular parts, you can start piecing together a human being that is stronger, faster, and dumber than any natural human. The military would be so afraid of someone else getting them first, that they would make themselves a massive army of them and start parading around like they're number one again. Then, other countries get clone armies...and massive clone wars happen. Granted, war will happen as long as humans exist, and cloned armies cut down on the rest of us getting killed, but what about the clones? We have no idea of knowing if they will even be individuals, real people. Would it be murder to kill a clone? Do clones feel? Is sending an army of clones into a deathtrap the same as sending an army of natural people into one? It just raises too many questions, and needs to be avoided.

I like what you said. I forgot to mention, would clones have seperate rights as we do, do the laws apply to them? In I,robot of course it has nothing to do with cloning but i mean in that movie the robots were given laws to abide by. What if we give the clones laws that they dont follow? Also, could they out of no where, like alot of ai robot movies, get the idea of intelligence to try to over through us or destroy us? And while i read J'kar's post i somehow got Star Wars in my head, weird. Any one know the lawys of star wars clones?

[TheJanitor]

Would you care to atleast try to make a decent attempt to backup anything you say?

CB said it in the other thread. I thought it was obvious, any defect in our evolution still gets passed on, modern medicine and society has created a enviorment where even the weakest can survive therefore the defect/weaker genes still get passed on. In the poorest countries, before we got to them with aid only the strongest/fittest man' genes can get passed on as the weaker men are more likely to die and less likely to procreate. I agree in a sense, if cloning becomes the only way we reproduce then evolution is ****ed, but to be honest we have done a great job of screwing evolution even before cloning became possible.

[Venice_native]

Thank you

I did not read the other thread and was only curious into more insight behind your views.

[B)ushid(o]

Originally Posted by -[J'kar the Damned]-

I find that cloning is a very big no-no, and simply because of this:

The military. They're idiots, particularly the US military. You KNOW they will use the cloning process to try and make an army of non-individual supersoldiers. It goes hand in hand with genetic engineering. If you can clone just particular parts, you can start piecing together a human being that is stronger, faster, and dumber than any natural human. The military would be so afraid of someone else getting them first, that they would make themselves a massive army of them and start parading around like they're number one again. Then, other countries get clone armies...and massive clone wars happen. Granted, war will happen as long as humans exist, and cloned armies cut down on the rest of us getting killed, but what about the clones? We have no idea of knowing if they will even be individuals, real people. Would it be murder to kill a clone? Do clones feel? Is sending an army of clones into a deathtrap the same as sending an army of natural people into one? It just raises too many questions, and needs to be avoided.

That would require incredible financial support, even with the amount of money going into the military today, the government would still have to drain funds from other departments, slash funds from other parts of the military, or raise taxes. There would be massive public outcry if the former two were to happen, and the only way the latter would occur is if conflict or the threat of conflict is low or eliminated.

A ****load of money would have to go towards research for cloning. Once a sufficient technique is found, they'd have to find willing participants or forcefully take suitable people. Raising the clones would take up loads of cash, and training an army of "dumb" clones would be harder. Either they have different clones for different positions in the military, which would take thousands of participants, or they split the large clone group into, literally, hundreds of sub-groups, and train each sub-group into their destined position. Either way, it'd stress any country's income, even America's.

Then there's the whole question of whether the billions of dollars drained to the project would produce soldiers who are the best of the best, the most efficient soldiers possible, or are they just slightly better than the soldiers today. The rewards don't supercede the risks in this scenario.

btw: Does what the military spends its allotted funds on have to pass through Congress, or no?

[TheJanitor]

Thank you

No thankyou, I admit saying wrong wasn't the best way to go about it, you're right in the way that the clone won't have a more 'up to date' set of genes, its stuck with the set from the original source.

Bushido, as farfetched as the idea is. You'd only need one willing participant to create a thousand footsoilders. I doubt anything like that would happen of course, the more likely thing is cloning will be used in the food industry with genetic enchancement.

[Vadriel]

Don't doubt it, guys. The military thinks that way, and they WILL get the funding to do so. I imagine they're on their way right now...I am sure they've already had at least one successful human cloning test trial. Sorry to say it, but they do not tell us everything they do, or Congress either. They'll do it, illegal or not, funds or not. And if they work in conjunction with an ally, funds won't be as big a problem, though I doubt the mighty US of A would deign to work with an ally on military R/D. And the new troops would be more efficient, even if only in controlability. Just think, if you had a bunch of men that you raised from "birth" to be soldiers, and they were all the same, destroying the individuality factor, they would be the perfect soldiers. They'd do everything you told them to, selflessly and obediently. The government would LOVE that, and they'd stop at nothing to get it.

Oh, and Tupac, the reason you're thinking Star Wars is because that is very much what the Imperial Stormtroopers are. Cloned warriors with little to no individuality. It works nicely for the Empire, it would work even better on Earth for the US military.

[AZN_FLEA]

how are they gonna get the technology to do this? thousands of perfect troopers need to be trained and fed. a shit load of work if you ask me. clones arent guaranteed to follow every order. they will have individuality unless the environment they grow up in is the same

[Tipsy]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

I don't see why religious types get annoyed about it (And maybe a lot of them don't, but for those who do: ) it is never mentioned in the Bible, and I can't think of anything close to it, so there really isn't a strong case about it for Christians, and haven't heard general opinions about it from other religions (Although I have a decent hunch about Muslims).

Can't believe I missed this thread and this post.

Well the first problem with [human] cloning at our technology level would be the massive loss of human life involved. For example, the technique used for Dolly the sheep, it took roughly 300 attempts to produce her. So far we are looking at an enourmous number of deaths to create one clone, and at that the clone came out with severe disabilities. Destroying human life to do research is considered to be wrong.

So if somehow we had a method that cloned humans perfectly and did not result in the deaths of hundreds of humans in the process, there would still be a problem with that. It has to do with the same things that see pre-marital sex as a sin. It is only a married couple that has the "right to become a father and a mother only through each other." Removing the reproductive act from sex is sinful, just as removing the sexual act from reproduction is sinful. Having someone artificially produced is "contrary to the dignity and equality that must be common to parents and children."

So to sum everything up, it is considered wrong because reproduction should be done through the sexual act only and not artificially.

[l33t 0n3]

I don't have any beef with cloning. We play god enough as it is with modern medicine, animal shelters, and stuff like that. We aren't meant to live as long as we do, animals are meant to die, etc. Humans always mess nature up. I see no reason not to clone... But thats just me; morals suck.

[Lights]

Test-Tube Babies, anyone?