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Originally Posted by Tipsy Okay, read my post again, I will help you with color-coding. "Since I am guessing you are too busy not looking at the 'entirety' of the argument, then I'll put it here for you. Okay, if I will must, I will explain to you my reasoning once again. [size=4]Here we go. First off, the United States considers an alien “any person not a citizen or national of the United States” [directly from a government website]
-Yes the government does consider people/children/baby's that are born from other countries to be citizens. Not unborn babies.
You can consider an unborn baby not a citizen or national of the United States, as you have stubbornly pointed out over and over again, but guess what, it doesn’t matter. I keep telling you over and over again that it doesn’t matter. First off, Plyler vs Doe gave aliens protected under the Equal Protection ClauseThat itself should be enough.
-I gave my argument above
There are a few other court cases such as Yick Wo vs Hopkins which further the rights of aliens, but that really doesn’t matter to you, now does it. As I said, I read the constitution and I see what the court says about it, I look at it in the ‘entirety’ not what you are doing by just starring at the constitution and interpreting it to what you want. I look at what our legal system says it means."
-So do I. And by saying that I take the constitution and say what I want it too you have just been wronged. You said through basis of elimination of the wording of the constitution that it protects unborn fetus's. When in fact. NOWHERE does it ever mention unborn babies/abortions.
They were written for the protection of human rights. A fetus is a human due to it being genetically identical to any other human in other stages of development. You yourself contradict yourself when saying, "All of them are dealing with the rights of born human beings". Abortion is a human rights issue. It is the so-called 'just' discrimination of humans. This is a violation of human rights. If you question whether or not it is a human, all you have to do is look at 1) It is alive, the unborn baby can reproduce his own cells and develop them,
-So is my dog. Does that give it human rights?
2) It is completely human in its characteristics, including the well pointed out 46 human chromosomes, and
-Yes, but in the first two trimesters it has very few if any body parts and cannot survive on its own.
3) Nothing new will be added to the unborn baby from the time the sperm enters the egg to the time the unborn baby dies as an old man/woman. It is a human being. Just because you are not born, or because you are black, does not make you not a full person. These documents make it clear that you cannot discriminate on these points.
-Aaah but my point is different. I am stating that it is against the constitution to force women to bear the agonizing toll of
a) carrying the fetus
b) Go through the pains of childbirth.
It is at her own "liberty to choose whether or not she goes through this. Nobody elses.
I don't see what that has to do with anything. Many illegal things have were not in 'existence' when the Constitution was written, does this make them exempt from the it too?
-What I am saying though is that you interpret the constitution as if it specifically was written against abortion by the ammendments you proposed. When they were never meant for anything of that nature.
Edit: TBS' example from the post below is a better one.
Not true as has been obviously pointed out.
Edit: Tell if you do not agree with any of these points and I will quote myself again for you to answer your problem.
1) An unborn baby is a human being.
- An Unborn baby is a fetus not a human being until birth and/or it can live outside of the mother on its own.
2) The fourteenth amendment is not restricted to citizens of the United States.
- It is...here is a copy of it for you just so you can revise this statement.
"Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
3) The fourteenth amendment, since it’s not restricted to citizens of the United Statse, and is extended to people within the jurisdiction of the United States, protected unborn babies in the jurisdiction of the United States.
-Again Look at the ammendment above and tell me where it says it appeals to non-citizens.
4) United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is in fact 'universal',
meaning it is "Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration."
-Again, Didn't we talk about this. These rights are based on protecting human beings from unneccessary suffering, etc.
For example:
a) Countries shouldn't enslave and beat their people.
b) people are entitled to certain judicial rights
None of those ...even in the document that you quoted itself (which I will again say that it clearly states born) says anything to the nature of "no abortions are allowed"
5) Since the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is universal, is applies to even the most innocent and smallest human being, being the unborn babies.
-See above
I think that just about sums up the legal information. |